Alright people, it’s almost Thanksgiving and I want to make sure you’re prepared to meet your aunt’s sister in law’s son who is also a photographer because you know how it is these days saying you’re a photographer is like saying you breathe air.
But, here’s the deal, you need a shit load of talent to become a “working photographer.” A shiiiiiiiiiit load. There is such a massive gulf between amateur and professional photography it’s really quite improbable how people can make the jump. I guess that’s the good news for pros. The bad? Enduring your new amateur photographer friend’s endless string of questions about camera type and file treatment and technique then the viewing of vacation photos on the ipod or blog or photo sharing site and then in my case the inevitable “if you ever need photos from the
Vesna Festival in Saskatoon Saskatchewan Canada, I was there last year and have a thousand shots.”
I’ve got nothing against amateur photographers and I’m more than happy to engage them in conversation about the business but this website is for working photographers, people who aspire to become working photographers, photo editors and art directors. I don’t give a crap if you hang out on flickr or myspace or zooomr because there’s plenty of good stuff happening there as well. But, if you come here to hang with us it’s to engage in conversation about working as a photographer at the highest level.
See you after the break.
112 Comments
There must be a bunch of professions like this–something that’s sexy enough that regular people want to pretend they’re in the game, but not sexy enough that a working professional is not widely recognized as being all that different from posers. I wonder if there were as many posers before the digital revolution.
Is it professional conversation to talk about the non-professional conversations that all we professionals are involved in?
I often enjoy the dreaded amateur questions, it’s often a reminder of how far I’ve come in my technical knowledge, as well as an opportunity to take a fresh look at the knowledge that I take for granted. Answering these questions and giving advice is teaching in a basic form. As the old saying goes: to know a subject really well you should teach it.
What is it about a professional photo that makes it better than an amateur photo? This question helps me be a better professional photographer.
My thoughts go out to all those turkeys that gave their lives for our countries tradition. peace.
I love this blog. I love the posts, they are just soooo honest and so real!
I don’t think there is one other area in the photography business that has more “amateurs” working as “pros” than in my area – the wedding business.
I come from the advertising side, I worked as a commercial shooter and before that as a designer. I know what I’m doing. But there are SO many guys out there that are still learning about photography and they are out there charging insane fees – and people pay them! It’s crazy.
The sign of a professional is this: someone who can, over time, over and over again, produce the same level of work for their client. So the line between amateur and professional is perhaps a fine one. And, as Dave wrote, there are a LOT of posers in the photo biz, both pro and amateur.
I think it’s great though, that there are so many amateurs out there trying to do what they do, after all at one point, somewhere back in time, we were all amateurs as well.
Have a great Thanksgiving and stay safe! Look forward to the posts when you return!
Yuk… tell me about it…
I’m a professional physicist, whose specialty is optics and sensors. I just can’t stand it when my professional photographer friends try to tell me that just because they know about aperture, spherical aberration, CA, and coma etc, they think they understand light as well as I do.
I’m totally with you. Keep it pure!
Dr. N.
It’s great that you understand light, and I’m sure you can express it mathematically better than anyone.
Do you have any photographs? I’d love to see if you’re good at that too.
As far as for the rest of this post, I’ve met some pompous pros out there and they all think they’re saving the world. Problem is, if we lined up all working pros and drowned them in the river, maybe throw most lawyers and politicians in as well, everyone else would get on no differently than before.
As far as annoying amateurs being all the same, why get annoyed?
amateurs and pros think about photography in their spare time, but only the latter is forced to think about it during work time too. and that hones your skills.
What is worse?
annoying amateur or a really shitty pro?
I will go with the shitty pro any day.
PE, tell your aunts, cousins, nephews realtor, that I said what up.
wow. as a working photographer, here’s a blog post that actually makes me feel good about myself for once!
scott – I completely agree. I usually enjoy being able to take something that mystifies many people like exposure, and break it down.
…getting a good exposure is like having a bucket that you want to fill it with water…
…you have all sorts of hoses, and for each hose, you need to turn the water on for a different amount of time…
James,
I think you missed my point…
Think “tongue-in-cheek.”
>Do you have any photographs? I’d love to see if you’re good at that too.
I don’t believe you. I don’t believe you because it sounds to me like you’re reacting very defensively. I think you’d only love to see them if they made you feel superior.
Just a guess.
I grew up & work in Kodak and RIT’s backyard. Every other big K employee thinks they’re a shooter and RIT keeps cranking ’em out as fast as Mom & Dad can write tuition checks.
Being a “B” or “C” city we have a strong photo community. Eastman House, Visual Studies and the 2 place mentioned above. We get decent folks on the photo lecture tour, fine art to pro shooters. I can’t tell you how many dumb ass questions I’ve heard asked asked at lectures. Not worth repeating here.
My favorite “Oh your a photographer” conversation is the “Which camera should I buy?” talks. What ??? the 85/ 1.2 is out of your budget? B&H should be sending me commissions for the amount of cameras I’ve essentially sold for them!
stikman: Looks like you wont have to go far. Looking at your site and your gallery, you’ve already beat most to the punch.
Dr N: You’re a professional physicist. As far as I see it, you’re already superior to 95% of photographers by my rough estimate, and I’m serious (see my statement above about drowning photographers for reference). However, I’d still welcome to the chance to feel superior to you in proportion to you feeling superior to your friends’ feeling superior to your knowledge.
Our head guy where I work is quitting, and everyone’s feeling the pain. You know, big shoes and all. Photogs that take themselves too seriously are like soldiers out of highschool. They’ll shoot anything that moves for a buck, but their work is rarely moving.
Hey you kids play nice now.
PE: I completely agree. Just because I have a Mont Blanc doesn’t mean I’m a writer. Talent does rise to the top and filters the Pros from the Amatuers.
Your blog rocks! Something I’ve been looking to find for a while!
You’d rather talk about other people’s kids and who died this year?
I’m the editor of a (pro) photography magazine, and what disinterests me in a lot amateur photography is that it’s mostly visual karaoke – trying to get the perfect shot the way you’ve seen it shot a million times before. Lots of amateurs are ‘talented’ and have good ‘skills’, but it’s the lack of an interesting voice or perspective that’s missing. Same with many commercial photographers shooting what they think is art in their personal work. What’s worse: lurid-coloured amateur pics of desert canyons or some comfortably paid pro taking two weeks holiday in Thailand and coming back with a folio of ladyboys they want to pitch to Yossi Milo? Let’s not keep up the myth that pro photographers are where they’re at becuause of their skill set and that talent rises up. For most it’s about perseverence and good communication. For the best it’s more idiosyncratic qualities like empathy or vision – and being able to relate that in a seemingly original way.
Like most people visiting here I really appreciate the insightful comments, but one thing I already know is that photographers like to moan a lot. You know that if you can pay the rent you’re lucky enough to have one of the best jobs in the world don’t you? Next time someone enthusiastic asks you a question about photography because they’re in awe of your status as a pro, try and habe a little humility…
Wrr, that’s have, not habe… What’s habe?
You’re up late Simon. Love the mag.
M.
Im the only one in my family who has a real camera. and they think what I do is softcore porn.
Ergo, Ill be discussing the Lions-Packers game.
be safe fellow pros have a good holiday.
Simon,
great mag.
Thanks, Simon, for writing what you wrote! I second that.
speaking of…i was at my step-sisters wedding two years ago and I took my camera with me. their wedding photographer actually asked me “You know Im the wedding photographer right?”
i was like…umm….yeah…..he said “I saw your camera and just wanted to make sure.”
Dick.
well aren’t y’all speshul. God forbid some lowly douchebag should darken your doorstep with their crap. Good to know that the gatekeepers are so GRRRRRRRReat at their jobs……blow that is…
What Simon (very elegantly) wrote.
Humility may be desirable, but it doesn’t seem to cut it in our bloggers world:
“But, here’s the deal, you need a shit load of talent to become a “working photographer.” A shiiiiiiiiiit load.”
I think this statement epitomizes this blog because it’s what social scientists and linguistics profs call ‘performative’: it doesn’t describe a state of affairs in a simple way (like “the sun rises”) but also constitutes the world it’s describing. Of course, this isn’t to say it’s not true. I’ve no doubt that making the jump to a professional photographer (or writer, musician, scientist, politician, or athlete for that matter) requires enormous talent – and the things Simon mentioned. But it strikes me that your status as an expert, in your cut-throat New York world at least, requires that you vigorously maintain the boundaries of the category ‘professional’.
Ya know what – this whole string is unworthy. What the hell are you all talking about? I love talking to amateurs about their photography – listen carefully, you might just learn something. This blog may not be a the right venue for topics that occupy photographer’s who aren’t lifers, but com’on folks … part of being a professional is answering those “dumb” questions because you have no idea how you can inspire someone with your answer. Jeeeeez.
BTW – “visual karaoke” – that’s f@#kin’ great. Can I quote you next time I talk to my amateur neighbor? Seriously.
@ Anon- I love to talk to non-pros about the craft but if I hear one more person tell me they want to learn F stops & shutter speeds again only to find they never take their Rebel off auto I’m might lose it.
Alan – you teach. You get a pass on this one.
I was interviewed for a show for PBS about 4 years ago about people who took “different paths” in their lives and succeeded called Roadtrip Nation. When it aired the guys who interviewed me were in their van after talking about the interview and said “Photography is a strange business, to be a professional photographer all you have to really do is say I’m a professional photographer. I guess it’s that easy”.
As soon as I saw it I got pissed cuz i knew they sat there and taped me talking for 2 hours about how hard it is (was at the time anyway) to make a consistent living at shooting photographs and that’s what they got from it?
Plus I forgot to shave…
Day19 – really – who cares how hard others think it is. Inside us is where the overworked phrase, “the work is all that counts” matters most.
On the outside, call it want you will, I’m going to kick ass and take names – OK – I’ll be a smart business man and make this business work for me regardless of whether others think I have talent, live in the wrong place or have a lousy website.
Can you tell I’ve had a lot of free time today?
Oh, man. . .This reminds me of how for years my uncle would be hounding me to make the switch to digital (and shoot papparazzi photos, and use a PC instead of a mac. . .), and now that I do shoot digitally he just nods and smiles like it was entirely his influence, not the crushing onslaught (I mean, improvement) of technology. And the fact that Apple makes it nice to use. There’s also the random friend of my brother who has a pet Leica and scoffs at my digital camera but then runs out of film fifteen minutes into the evening. It takes a lot of work to bite your tongue, and I’ve looked at a great many people’s vacation photos. Thank god the old-fashioned slideshow is a thing of the past. Tomorrow I will be thankful that the majority of my relatives can’t operate computers well enough to inflict their pictures upon me.
Furthermore I will be thankful that those in attendance at dinner know that I haven’t the foggiest idea what kind of camera they should buy, they all know more famous people than I do and care even less about it, and I’ll be especially thankful that nobody will even consider for a moment the prospect of watching/discussing a sporting event of any kind. Amen.
Personally, as an aspiring pro myself(about a year from graduating and currently working on fine tuning my style and crafting my portfolio/website/identity), it’s really disheartening to go to the future in-laws for the holidays. The last few experiences of meeting visiting said relatives, have been…well, disheartening.
Usually goes a little like this:
relative: “Oh, so your a photographer?”
me: “Yes.”
relative: “…like a paparazzi, how cool!”
me: “uhh..no, not at all!!?”
(-in my head – “WTF!”)
Now I know we live in an age where we are being inundated with great imagery from TMZ and such, but where does the association of “I’m a photographer” equal “I’m a paparazzi”?
Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
And I get this from strangers and family alike upon which i take the time to explain the difference between what my work is about and what the job of a paparazzi is. It just kills me that with all the imagery on the web, in magazines, on billboards, etc, the only thing someone can come up with when you tell them you a photographer is that you are paparazzi?!!
As far as asking questions to pros, I rarely ask pros about technical aspects unless it relates specifically to their work or style, otherwise their are libraries(you know, the thing before the internet) full of books, on technique . It frustrates me to see people at school who just regurgitate Greenberg or “insert famous pro here”. But it also motivates me to focus on defining my style and making it unique and true to me. Most of my questions for pros end up relating to the business and/or mentorship aspect of photography. Too many kids come out of school not knowing how to copyright their work,etc,etc or how to be successful and contribute back to the photographic community.
And yes, I agree that being a pro takes a lot of talent, I have no doubt. I just think that perseverance, talent, exposure, and luck all play a part in the attaining of the status “pro”. Being a photographer is a part of me, it is how I experience the world.
Sorry for the long post. Hope everyone has a safe and happy Thanksgiving.
APE – your blog is refreshing and a very useful tool in prompting discussions that I don’t get through academic avenues. Thank you. Please continue the insightful discussions.
*Sorry just came to me, but also wondering how many pros are active members of photographic communities? Do you feel like this contributes to the photo community in a positive way(encouraging professionalism)?
this post had me giggling.. thanks! i love this blog with all my heart. :)
I wasn’t trying to make others think it’s hard by any means. Because come on, how hard is it really? It would be a lot harder for myself to work any 9 to 5 job than to get to be able to meet amazing people on a daily basis and be able to photograph them. Every day is a fun new adventure. It was just funny that what they got from interviewing me is that becoming a pro is as easy as saying you are a pro.
The difference between working pros and “amateurs” has to do with the capacity to deliver usable images (if they are remarkable the better) on time, and on budget, to the clients. Camera skills alone aren’t going to help you if you can’t work with deadlines and budgets.
You should also have a professional site (but i don’t scorn “social sites” per se) to show to possible clients, that shows that you are serious and took the effort and budget to prove it.
“What’s worse: lurid-coloured amateur pics of desert canyons”
If I see one more picture of Antelope Canyon (amateur or professional), I fear I may need some professional counseling.
David, at the risk of being pedantic:
“Too many kids come out of school not knowing how to copyright their work…”
One of the biggest hurdles I have to overcome in explaining copyright to people is the idea that your work is copyrighted from the minute you create it. Few understand that registering the image with the copyright office is an additional step that confers additional benefits; a sort of insurance if you will. And everyone that isn’t familiar with photo business practices gets “copyright” and “register” mixed up!
david.. its all good.. you will get the paps/nude questions all life long. just say yes.
just add a little sarcastic note concerning your usual jobs to it. like when you shoot household appliances: “yes, we stalked that refrigerator all week long till we got the nude shot, but the XYZ (enter your local A-tabloid) wouldnt take the pic, so we put it on a billboard all over town.”
believe me, it works.
Hm … question: working photographers and their shit load of talent, how they start doing their job exactly? As an amateur photographer? It’s just only because I never heard of a new born baby delivered with the camera out of the whomb … ;-)
>.Now I know we live in an age where we are >being inundated with great imagery from TMZ >and such, but where does the association of >I’m a photographer” equal “I’m a paparazzi”?
I do a lot of street photography and used to live in Los Angeles. If I had a nickel for every time someone asked me if I was a paparazzi or mistook me for one or threw me a rude comment I could retire.
To be honest I was really taken aback the first time it happened. This woman unloaded on me in the middle of the street, calling me every name in the book and a few that were new even to me.
But frankly I can’t blame her. If you have ever seen these guys in action you have to ask yourself how their behavior could possibly be legal. Forget about ethics. It’s a shame, because we all get lumped in with those who behave the worst.
It can be amusing though….
Man in street: Are you a professional photographer?
Me: Yes
Man in street: What exposure are you using?
Me: Er…125th at f8
Man in street: Oh I’ll have to remember that one
Dear photo editor I’m really delighted to read your script about unprofessional photographer. But. I don’t know the market in Usa. I’m italian end I’m hardly and badly working with italiam magazines where the most important is (except for the fashion) to save money even if that means bad quality. And where even the sister’boyfriends shots are the most wellcomed if they are free. Nevertheless american ‘Food and wine’ published my photos for an article on an italian restaurant because they where free for them but when I sent my archive food list to the photo editor I never had an answer. All the best
Much worse than the wannabe is the art photographer or curator who looks at my photos (I’m a journalist) and says uncertainly “These are amazing! But don’t you ever want to do your own work?”
Wasn’t there a period in photographic history when people like Henri Cartier Bresson and others demanded to be called amateurs, because they perceived the professionals as a bunch of bourgeois stiffs?
The best way to confuse relatives is to take a really old film camera and an old auto flash. I get out my ME Super, Sunpak 383 and take two rolls of Kodachrome 64 with me.
Old film gear and techniques like guide numbers are boring to the digital camera geeks. Plus they never ask to take a look at your camera.
[…] A Photo Editor – I’m a Photographer Alright people, it’s almost Thanksgiving and I want to make sure you’re prepared to meet your aunt’s sister in law’s son who is also a photographer (tags: photography) […]
What Simon said (17th comment!)
Correct me if Im wrong but I think the PE might be partly lamenting the rapid decline of the newly adopted Photo Rank feature on the site. At first it seemed like a brilliant way to discover, critique and learn about the work of working professionals but has rather unfortunately turned into a Zoomer / Flicker popularity contest.
But my uncle’s wife’s nephew’s girlfriend might have inherited her great grandfather’s daguerreotype kit. Which means I can leave the old fogies in the house and head out to the back shed for some fun with all those vapors ;-).
I’m not a working photographer. I’m still trying to figure that one out. The questions I have become tired of, always pertain to my post processing style or black and white conversion techniques. I do almost no post processing, spending merely minutes on a single image. People always want to know how I am achieving the look I get. Like its some kind of photoshop trick. I spent a lot of time painting and learning light. Thats how I do it. I dont know what to say :\
p.s. Love your blog <3
My favorite question I sometimes get from subjects and distant relatives:
“Is that all you do”?
“If I see one more picture of Antelope Canyon (amateur or professional), I fear I may need some professional counseling.”
You probably do need counseling if you feel that way. I’d rather suffer a flash flood in Antelope Canyon over a day in a studio any day of the week.
this blog is getting popular isn’t it?
@a photo assistant (comment 47)
and are you in anyway surprised by that?
the massed ranks of mediocrity seeking love… ‘mummy, tell me i’ve done well! tell me that my photos are nice! mummy! mummy!’
surely it’s old news on the internet, right?
I was just reading a recent issue of Harpers Bazaar. There was an awesome fashion spread shot by Karl Lagerfeld, the famous fashion designer. There is no doubt about is credentials as a designer and I have seen many other great spreads he’s done but it’s an interesting contrast to the recent amateur discussion. BTW- He didn’t shoot one stitch of his designs.
@ A Photo Assistant – I agree, when I read APE’s post I thought exactly the same thing. Some major league ass kissing on some of those alleged masterpieces…
I think this bashing of Canadians must stop – as an aspiring Canadian I take offense with the implication that our heritage is uninteresting!
As far as I can see many of the so called working photographers who primarily work in the editorial arena are just high level amateurs anyway!
Lets face it how can they make a living on the money that editorial pays? They seem to contribute to many alternative magazines for years on end without any apparent advertising jobs in between. Who’s paying the rent and bills certainly not the trendy mags many of whom expect their contributors to even pay for all the expenses.
@ 57; Chris I’m sorry but you seem to be missing the point, yes its true that you can’t earn a living shooting for magazines, they don’t pay enough – the ones that do pay – but thats not why your work is in them. Photographers view the magazines as a shop window basically. Your work is being seen by a lot of people, and you’re getting to photograph interesting people, the ones who probably make up the photographers book. Its simply exposure. That leads to other work; ad work etc.
You state ‘They seem to contribute to many alternative magazines for years on end without any apparent advertising jobs in between.’ But of course you can’t know that, they are probably shooting other work that pays the bills but you just don’t know about it, they may not put it on their site, etc, but that doesn’t mean they are not working between editorial shoots.
I couldn’t have got the pay cheque work without doing the other work to build up my book and exposure.
A shoot with a band for a magazine can lead to a shoot directly with the record label etc…
Also you can syndicate the images.
I think it’s just very poor business practice that’s can only lead to a downward spiral in rates for every field of the industry.
You should only be too aware of this taking pictures of musicians as I’m very sure there are downward pressures on day rates there just as well as elsewhere?
I hear these types of comments so often including someone else’s blog that you probably read at http://www.perou.co.uk.
The magazines must be laughing all the way to the bank!
At this rate the only people to survive in the industry will be people who are independently wealthy or have Trust funds.
My point is that how can someone define themselves as a ‘working photographer’ when the pictures they show on their website that are supposed to be representative of their work are not really how they make a living?
“Harlan Ellison — Pay the …..”
Brilliant simply brilliant …..
As was this …..
“I think it’s just very poor business practice that’s can only lead to a downward spiral in rates for every field of the industry.”
¿I’m very sure there are downward pressures on day rates there just as well as elsewhere?
“The magazines must be laughing all the way to the bank!
At this rate the only people to survive in the industry will be people who are independently wealthy or have Trust funds.”
Good I am not the only other photographer that is not indy wealthy & sin Trust funds ..& likes to be paid ..
I just don’t get how editorial outlets in the states feel they can pay the pittance the majority of magazines & newspapers doll out ..
I far as I can tell by any metric editorial for a photographer simply a road to bankruptcy ..
Will just add many museums & foundations are not so far off the magazines … in expecting the all most freebies
charles/chris:
here’s the way i see it; just one view. it’s hard to make a blanket statement about editorial, (or anything, for that matter). the guys who shoot celebrities for editorial get the initial low fee, but they have sydication opportunities after the fact, which can be very lucrative. even assignments for corporate CEO types can pay off too, if the images are also licensed to the corporation for their PR use, too, after the magazine uses them. there are also opportunities for foreign editions of the larger magazines, after the US edition has run. there’s also “space rate”, which, if it’s a large story, can pay off too.
but I do agree with you guys, in some ways. if it’s not a hot corporate executive, or a celeb, that measly $500+ might be all you’d ever see from an assignment. hard to justify that, unless you’re taking the job and “shooting it your way, for your book”. that way, hopefully, if you shoot it your way, that editorial usage might lead to something for your book, or even to an ad job. so one scratches the other’s back, in an ideal world.
and if all you do is advertising, (with clients, and PDFs, and restrictions), sometimes, it’s just good for the soul to shoot an exciting editorial job from time to time.
yeah, it’s a crazy business. no logic whatsoever.
i’d be interested to see how A.P.E., and photographers here, have dealt with the whole “space rate against the day rate thing”. for the most part, when magazines call me, “space rate” is never mentioned. and it seems like if it is, every single magazine has a different way to view it. it seems, more and more, when the magazines call, it’s simply: “This is the fee, plus expenses”, or even weirder: “Here is the job — we’ve got $1500 all inclusive”. nothing in that scenario seems to imply “we’d pay you more, after the face, if we runs the image(s) larger”.
how are other people seeing this issue?
Ed I. Toria I get your points & “so one scratches the other’s back, in an ideal world”
But if I could count the number of times I have had the one way scratching ….
I just look at the advertisements rates for magazines & newspapers in the states & I wonder how they have the gall to pay shooters in the hundreds dollars ….
At least in the states most of the newspapers & many magazines went to the rights grabbing contracts to boot so there are no syndication & licensing opportunities at least for the photographers
At some point I just feel like a lot of the editorial side of the photo industry in the states is simply kidding them selfs ..
I know of serveral photographers which have been discoved on Myspace and Flickr (if ur interested, I can provide them for you with thier clients) and have landed major magazine gigs.
So, are they amatures?
Pros?
It seems that on this blog anyway, grinders are pissed off at anyone who doesn’t do their “time” assisting or shooting lame spreads of brides or laughing children b-4 being discovered.
I think the bottom line is that industry makes “pros” no one else. Look at TR’s work. he uses a friggin disposable. Six years ago, would you Nikon D3/Canon 5D, 10 assisitant, $1.54 mil in lights and junk users have called him an amateur? Mos Prob. and he’s laughing all the way….well you know the rest.
The way I see things is that if you have a shed load of money to give away then to quote ‘A Photo Editor’ :-
‘if you come here to hang with us it’s to engage in conversation about working as a photographer at the highest level’
The editorial market is now becoming an exclusive club for rich kids. But by my definition they are not professional as they not making their income from photography are they?
It won’t be too long before the Advertising Agencies are offering low or no fees to photographers in exchange for ‘exposure’. So really what’s the difference between a so called ‘Professional’ and a gifted amateur?
I *am* the aunt’s sister in law’s son who is also a photographer. In fact, I brought the 6×7 out for group pictures this year and making giant prints for everyone. I wish I had a 4×5.
Happy Thanksgiving!
Chris wrote:
“It won’t be too long before the Advertising Agencies are offering low or no fees to photographers in exchange for ‘exposure’.”
I guess it could happen, if ad agencies started offering up Photo Credits, right on the ad itself. Yeah, right.
And can we please stop with the Terry Richardson analogies? There will always be Exceptions to the Rule. For every successful Terry Richardson, there are ten thousand Flickr Guys running around, waiting to be discovered, and working at Starbucks. The Terry Richardson thing just does not hold water. There’s him, and maybe J. Teller, and that’s about it. Two out of ten million, that are actually making a living in that style. I dare you — go ahead and buy that Canon G9, and sell everything else, and then start shooting only with that camera. Let’s see how long it lasts.
my point about the TR reference is it’s about creativity in the end. NOT your “time” in service or $$ of equipment. His style can be found everywhere from Nylon Mag, to Vibe, to most hip fashion mags, thus he’s no longer an exception to the rule. His and Teller’s style is becoming the rule.
I get the same if not better pics than some dude (or chick, although it’s mostly a dude for some reason) with my one body and two lenses, not all that photo kitsch hanging around my neck so I can say “i’m a professional”
Chris; You state; ‘Club for rich kids. But by my definition they are not professional as they not making their income from photography are they?’
I don’t normally get annoyed by posts, really whats the point?! But you’re talking so much rubbish its driving me nuts :) Rich kids! Who exactly? Not making income from photography? What do you think they do?
I earn all my income from photography. 100%
I don’t have rich parents, I didn’t win any money. I earn it. So I’m annoyed and offended by your suggestion otherwise. Do you simply have some chip on your shoulder?
Hell, and I was the one saying play nice the other day :P
But really!
“It won’t be too long before the Advertising Agencies are offering low or no fees to photographers in exchange for ‘exposure’.”
Chris, this is a very pessimistic viewpoint. Plus, how exactly does shooting an ad give me exposure? – Last time I checked, ads don’t list credits.
Seems strange to me to base pricing on what the buyer dictates. Also seems strange to me to sign client contracts. I don’t bring a contract with me when I go buy something, and I certainly don’t dictate the price.
In my experience, magazines like to treat all photographers the same, from pricing to contracts, etc. What the number crunchers (not necessarily the AD’s or PE’s) fail to understand is that we all run our own businesses – with our own unique pricing, terms, etc. If I hire a plumber and look at 3 estimates, all their contracts/terms are different. I appreciate that magazines may want to streamline their processes, but surely they might want to meet with an association or group of senior photographers to work together to create a win-win situation.
Not agreeing to signing the magazines contract or accepting their terms & price is, unfortunately in the minds of many photographers, means they don’t work. Of course there are exceptions, especially if you have a very unique style, but I suspect this is the rule rather than the exception.
What’s most interesting is the profits and advertising rates of magazines have consistently gone up over the years. In Canada, revenue growth has averaged 6% per year since 1999. The price index averages 2.2%/year in the same time. Yet photographers rates have not kept up even with the basic yearly increase in the cost-of-living. Something to keep in mind the next time you’re negotiating your fees.
Lastly (and promise to end my rant) it’s interesting how much magazines charge advertisers for a page. Ad revenues have gone up around 50% since 1999. The value is clearly there for advertisers. It’s sad many magazines don’t value the editorial images in their publications in the same way.
First of all I’m not trying to be offensive but it’s really a simple fact that if you want to do work at the highest level for editorial clients then you have to be prepared to work for free for a very long time. (and by that I mean give them money as your kit and time cost you considerably more than what they pay you!) The paradigms iare changing and the corporate’s have figured out that people will work for nothing if it’s fun and now they have the means to access this market. Listen to this Podcast to see what I mean. http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/news/inbusiness/inbusiness_20071011.shtml
This will even have repercussions for photographers who work in advertising and the more traditionally lucrative markets. No man is an Island and no sector will remain untouched from the significant changes that are happening to the creative industries. It’s not even pessimistic just a simple statement of fact.
just remember that you used to be that amateur asking the questions – are you really so arrogant that you think you were born with all your knowledge? Some poor photographer answered your questions and now it’s your turn to give some answers. I’m sorry my fellow generation of photographers is such a drag on your social life – I’m ashamed that so many of you have forgotten where you come from. I get annoyed too but I always take the time because the photographers I look up to always take the time for my annoying questions. If you have stopped asking questions about the medium then I bow down to your greatness, not that I need to because I see you are busy bowing down to yourself.
Hi Caroline – not sure who that comment was for?
@ favrot-t is silent
There is nothing wrong with amateurs. Yeah, we were all amateurs once.
But you’re missing the point. This place is not a place for amateurs asking amateur questions, trying to get work from APE. Are you kidding me?
There’s places like Photo.net or Luminous Landscape to learn. If you want work, send a promo card and cross your fingers.
Irving Penn was never an amateur.
“It won’t be too long before the Advertising Agencies are offering low or no fees to photographers”
No one has mentioned that when a client offers a rate, the smart biz person counters. That’s one reason the biz is in it’s current state. Photographers as whole are the worst business people out there, once 1 bone head caves to low rates the domino line begins to fall. Fortunately many working on the ad side realize the value of what they are supplying and demand appropriate compensation
“It won’t be too long before the Advertising Agencies are offering low or no fees to photographers”
crispin porter and bogusky has there projects up for grabs section nothing there right now, but when it’s running it’s a place where you submit photos for projects and the winner gets there image used for an ad for free, wow what a prize. We are doing this to ourselves I get calls from magazines here and there looking for me to shoot for free I turn them down unfortunately lots of people don’t and it hurts everyone. We need to educate the next generation now in school or assisting to not work for free.
The distinction between the ‘pro’ and the amateurs is very quickly beginning to blur. The photographic industry is been democratized whether we like it or not. I see communities of photographers on ‘Fiixr, YouTube, Photonet, IStock Photo who have a passion for photography and who are learning so much from one another everyday. Sure there are a lot of cheesy pictures and a lot of rubbish but out of these communities there will be rising stars who will not need editorial ‘shop windows’ to get well paid commissions. There will come a time when there will not be ‘pros or amateurs’ just good or bad photography. The real thing is that how many of them will be make consistently good money to make a full time living before they are pushed out by the white heat of competition?
A pro is confident enough to make you smile:
http://www.mslogan.net/
then
“Two Minutes With…”
then
“Cass Bird 2”
Tell me you’re not smiling.
directed @ everyone in this thread who is insulted by A Photo Editor encouraging readers to respect the direction he is trying to take HIS website.
please!
STOP asking questions you could easily answer your self with a quick google search, reading a book, or on any one of the thousands of online photography forums.
and!
STOP writing comments you have the answer to, but ask anyway CONVENIENTLY leaving the url to your website
that happens to consist of unoriginal editorial/commercial photos you did for small time publications or business thinking that A Photo Editor will turn you into the next big thing over night.
WAKE UP! THAT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.
IT JUST MAKES YOU LOOK REALLY BAD.
There is nothing wrong with being an “amateur”, or asking questions, and disagreeing with others. It’s just that when “amateurs” as well as “professionals” start pretending to be naive about their intentions and motives the quality of this wonderful site sinks.
Why should anyone here listen to or care about my pleas?
The information A Photo Editor shares out of his/her own free will is priceless, absolutely priceless insider information for anyone trying to get work or advance in this business(even if you are shooting for free building a solid book- Tokion, Fader, Spin etc…) You can’t buy most of this information in stores or schools and there is NO other site on the internet where a Photo Editor speaks so openly about the way it all works at this level.
I am no where close to being a “PRO” compared to A Photo Editor’s list of favorite photographers , but i have been in the photo and art worlds long enough to know when to call bull shit on lazy people who are selfishly slowing down the progress of something unique.
Just because you can ask or tell A Photo Editor anything doesn’t mean you should. Please respect the purpose of this site so we can all continue enjoying it.
@fan
amen.
btw – re. him/her. i had always presumed that APE was a her…
My motivation for commenting on this particular blog is not inspired by a desire to be commissioned or getting noticed by A Photo Editor. I make a very good living doing corporate work – it’s fun and considerably better paid than any editorial work. Secondly why would they commission a pretty average and unoriginal UK based photographer anyway? Sure I’ve done my fair share of portraiture and assignments for editorial in the past. (many for some very large and prestigious publications) But things have moved on and the rules of the game have changed.
I’m now seeing a whole generation of very talented photographers giving their time and money to huge corporations who own the mags and newspapers. This is killing the business. I would once again I’d like to reiterate the truth from the eloquent Harlan EllisonYouTube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj5IV23g-fE
You don’t have to work in editorial to get noticed and do good work – there are now alternatives and you won’t be working as a charity and giving money to the big corporates!
And here are just a couple of examples of photographers who are doing good work and they did not to have to give anything away except passion and hard work.
http://www.aopdigital.com/Downloads/p13_sectionid/2/p13_fileid/8
@ fan. What “questions are you talking about?
I don’t see anyone asking tech questions here.
As to your ass kissing, condescending post. APE has the ablilty to delete any comment he/she wishes.
When APE set up the Photo Rate site, he had to know that it would be flooded with crap.
get over your self. AND APE could have set it up so URL’s weren’t listed as a part of the posters name. I have seen some pretty awesome photography as a result of these comments.
get over yourself.
quoting chris george: “My point is that how can someone define themselves as a ‘working photographer’ when the pictures they show on their website that are supposed to be representative of their work are not really how they make a living?”
—
i think if the truth were known, you’d find this to very common with commercial photographers. more than you’d think. much of the time, the jobs that you shoot that pay the bills are not pictures you’d want on your website. what’s that word? “Aspirational”. you want to show the stuff that you WANT to shoot; not the stuff that you’re actually shooting, for money.
would be interesting to pass a law: For commercial photographers, you must post one image from every job you’ve shot, in order, chronologically, backwards, for the last twelve months. you can’t just go in and cherry-pick all those Tests, and all those personal pictures, and all those freebie editorial jobs that you took “for your soul” — you’ve got to make your site in calendar form, and show at least one picture from every job that paid you money.
you might be surprised how many cans of peas on white seamless you’d find; how many CEO portraits; how many models on white cove; how many uncool pictures from so-called cool photographers.
What a wonderful idea Jonesy :-)
I decided to post a few jobs that I did over the last couple of weeks as representative of the work I do to pay the mortgage. Nothing glamorous or cool but I certainly find them fun and interesting.
http://www.chrisgeorge.co.uk/recentwork/
A Photo Editor has done the photo community a wonderful service by creating this blog as the comments are more interesting than the posts. But who can be certain that APE even works as a Photo Director for a large NYC Mag? I certainly don’t. There are too many people reading this blog that hang off every word APE makes and that it will close down if the debate becomes controversial! As if the discussions might kill the goose that laid a Golden Egg! There are too many young people dreaming of becoming high level shooters earning big bucks but the more that give away their talent and time for free the less that this will remain a profession.
It’s a little known fact, but many of these superstar photographers that you that you see on E-Television, or on Page Six, all have other “day jobs”. They only get to be the superstar photographer one day a week. If the truth were known, it’s not so glamorous as we’d be led to believe:
Paolo Roversi’s portfolio, as a construction company photographer, Monday thru Friday:
http://tinyurl.com/22octx
Steven Meisel’s Monday-Friday job, (eek, uniforms!):
http://tinyurl.com/yu7xt2
And Sante D’Orazio’s little-known early work:
http://tinyurl.com/2fbh6z
(At least there were some women..)
@jonesy
“…would be interesting to pass a law: For commercial photographers, you must post one image from every job you’ve shot, in order, chronologically, backwards, for the last twelve months.”
This is the most retarded thing I’ve read on here.
By this logic, you must show all of us a photo of every girl you’ve shagged since losing your virginity.
I bet there’s a few in there you wouldn’t be too proud of, would there?
Editing Rule #1: Never show your trash.
Editing Rule #2: Show only your best work.
where the hell did all these people come from???
i think everyone starts somewhere. This digital age has helped the learning curve speed up. IF you are willing to really learn, you can perfect techniques faster. I think that most pro photogs are eating up this fact since there are SLEWS of them offering workshops to up and coming photogs. I see them all the time. I am a *newer* pro photog. I think the difference in pro and amateur is your willingness to stick to it. A ton of people think, “hey, it would be cool to be a photographer, it has to be easy” and they shoot a few gigs and don’t learn from their mistakes. I on the otherhand, try to make the most out of every shooting experience. I look at my photo and what I did and what could I do differently. I pay attention to all the details and play and learn along the way. I offer my clients unique and consistent images. Sure I make some mistakes, but I nail a majority of my shots. BUt I take chances and learn from them. I know what you are saying isn’t necessarily about ME…but I just have to say that all photographers start with the same thing…a passion for photos. SOme just take it to higher levels than others. :) I recently hired a HIGH END PRO PHOTOGRAPHER and got my images back. They weren’t nothing to write home about. Their years of experience looked about as good as my one year. Now, I have seen work from them and it is amazing, but my session was less than inspiring. I think even the best of photographers have off days. You can’t be amazing all the time. It is just not possible. You can be consistent, bu not amazing. :) just my 2cents.
Again I take issue with the general statment that talent is what it takes. There are many, many professionals who openly admit a competancy is all that is required for success, the real talent needs to be in business/marketing. I’ve heard it hundreds of times and know way too many photographers who prove the point. Its been a long, long time since pure talent got you a job, way before my time even.
@ C- If you are a photographer, why are you hiring one? Each scenario has it’s limitations so it’s hard to know w/o seeing images, but the other issue is a question of aesthetics. Some people look at J. Teller fashion pics and see snap shots, others see pure brilliance. Being relatively new to the craft perhaps your sense of aesthetics hasn’t matured yet. Again w/o seeing imagery any further discussion is pointless.
After reading the 90+ comments to APE’s pre-thanksgiving wishes it amazes me how the conversation degrades at times to bitterness amongst the rank and file. I have been a professional for almost 20 years in the NYC market – I started when old school was just school… What I have witnessed in our profession is akin to the desktop publishing revolution of the late 1980’s and early 1990’s. When was the last time any of you used an outside printing service for anything but very custom promo pieces requiring bindery, die cutting and such? I recall having dupes or large format transparencies made, custom C-prints, cibas, black and white printing, etc. 99% of these needs are efficiently handled by the trusty Epson on my shelf (I don’t show transparencies anymore)!
When I was an RIT student in the 1980’s I learned optics, densitometry, color printing in the dark – all things that have helped me immensely in embracing and excelling in this digital age (histogram anyone?). However, I no longer soup my film and I haven’t touched trays or fixer in god knows how long.
My point is that an amateur or aspiring professional 20 years ago had to get his or her hands dirty – had to scratch the film, put it on the reel incorrectly once, make mistakes that were time consuming, costly and frustrating. You really had to know how things work in order to get the desired results. Trial and error took time and patience. The dedication and passion required a much longer learning curve.
Today we look at the screen on our Mark III’s or Eizo’s or whatever and our errors are immediately apparent and instantly correctable with a re-capture or a curves layer. The ease of manipulation and the ability to interpret the image has become taken for granted. The amateur has access to the same data set we professionals do. If paying one’s dues in the past required becoming one of the albino mole people who lived in the darkroom for days on end, it has now become the slump shouldered, tired eyed look of the computer user. Maybe proficiency in CS3 is akin to the education in photography I got in the 80’s? Who knows….
Regardless, we are speaking about the here and now and what separates the amateur from the professional. As we all know this business operates on many levels and there are thousands of working professionals toiling in every trench (read specialty) imaginable. The difference is that for professionals this is a business and while it is nice to call yourself a photographer and feel the pleasure of being a free agent, there are bills to pay, children to raise, homes to maintain and health insurance to keep up with. My point is that you had damn well better be a business-person or you will find yourself in hot water fast. This is an unforgiving marketplace with no industry accreditation other than your eagerness to do a job and do it well. Of course talent is paramount. That is a given. You will get nowhere with crappy pictures. But nether will you succeed with a shitty attitude, poor handshake (APE is right!), poor production value or true lack of experience.
It helps to put yourself in the art buyer’s shoes – or the photo editor’s. They are the same for the most part in that their ass is on the line for every decision and recommendation they make. Their choice in hiring you is a vote of confidence. Let them down in any way and you will not be asked back to that particular party. It starts with the first phone or email contact ( how do you sound when you answer the phone?) to the invoice – is it clearly paginated, neat, makes sense and adds up?
That photo editor that just spent an extra 20 minutes adding up and adjusting your numbers to correct them is harboring the teeniest bit of resentment at making him/her work a little harder at something that should have been right the first time.
We professionals do not have the luxury of operating like Kinko’s or the Post Office. Screw up once and more often than not you have lost a client. Loyalty is hard to come by if only because the rainbow of talent out there is so vast and tasty ,why not try all the flavors?
I named myself the shark in this post because like a shark I must keep swimming to stay alive in this business. Take a rest by not creating new work, sit back and let the two year old book work for you (not!) and you would soon be on the sea floor decaying. The professional is always innovating, pushing himself beyond what he/she already knows. The professional is passionate and smart and witty and is a good manager of people. The professional is not satisfied with good enough – cannot afford to be otherwise. The professional is inclusive and a good teacher. The professional delivers time and time again with a smile on his/her face and the best crew possible supporting him/her.
So when my Uncle Mel asks me how to use his Canon Elph or whatever, I sit down with him and show him how to override the exposure with backlighting and that just about makes his day. When I moved to the burbs with the Mrs and little ones in tow and the nabes asked me if I shot weddings rather than be offended or haughty I said I didn’t know how but could call a few friends and see if they had any recommendations.
Being a professional is about NOT feeling resentment toward the amateur. Its about coming from a place of abundance and realizing that you have paid your dues. Everyone does in one way or another.
As I stated before, talent is paramount but you had damn well better have the stamina, will and intestinal fortitude to follow through. Otherwise you are a dabbler and will find yourself with a lot of free time on your hands.
“In my day we used to CRANK the film….grrr….”
No one says “not” anymore.
I hate these old timers who get on the “internets” and starts that whole…in my day….stuff.
Look, photoshop is no worse than the clouds Aubry Bodine kept in his drawer or the SUPER manipulated work of Ueselmann (sp?). It’s an evolution. get over it.
but that spiel about the pro working thing was good.
@ Jonesy: that’s THE best post on this whole thread.
@ Christopher Bush: ur stuff is tight as shit.
@ APE: THANKS! this is an awesome blog. I’ve been a contributor here for some time.
I think that Photo Rank is where all of these trolls are coming from.
jmgiordano – You don’t like the listening to the “old timers” because at some level you are defensive. You might consider examining that.
“tight as shit” … does that mean good? I’m still trying to get used to “that’s phat”.
@jmgiordano – “not” works fine for Borat!
I am not disparaging photoshop – its just another tool.
My point is that I sense resentment from the old timers – I don’t consider myself old – on the “internets” (thank you Stephen Colbert) about perceived amateurs not paying their dues the way they did. Its not possible. Don’t you think the lab owners and c-printers resent the digital age? Same thing. The real point is that there will always be a learning curve or process or whatever and the ones with professional practices, along with talent, luck, passion and perseverance will succeed. Its a winnowing out process. I refuse to live in the mindset of “things just ain’t like they used to be” – I don’t have time for it. I illustrate the “in my day” stuff as a way for others to understand the point of view of many photographers around the world who do feel resentful of the perceived ease in which new talent enters the marketplace. In some ways jmgiordano, we are on the same page. Quit bitching and keep shooting, right?
Learning from others on this blog is what its all about. If you don’t appreciate that then you too are just another tool. Cheap shots make you (and me) look bad
Cocky can be mighty unappealing. Good luck with that and keep on swimming.
@ the shark #95, Nice. Thanks for a great read. The DTP parallel is, I think, particularly apt.
I’d say the definition of professional in the MW dictionary, http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/professional , says it pretty well. I think talent plays a part, but is not the most critical part by any stretch.
Just like in any creative endeavor, such as painting, or music, there is so much more to being a professional than talent alone. There are plenty of (in my opinion) bad photographers, musicians, and artists making a living, while extremely talented ones work regular old day jobs their entire lives, never making much money from their creative pursuits.
I’ve been a professional bicycle mechanic, professional credit and collections manager, professional accounts payable manager, professional sales person, professional writer, professional web developer, professional photography studio manager, professional photo assistant, and for the last five or so years, professional photographer.
I prefaced all of the above jobs or careers (depending on how you look at things) with “professional” just so there would be no questions as to whether or not I was a professional credit and collections manager, or just an amateur.
The funniest aspect to the whole debate, or discussion, is that anyone cares at all. I mean, no one ever asked me if I was a professional anything, until it came to photography. I guess the difference being that people may harbor a dream of one day becoming a professional (which, I think, to them means earning a living) photographer, while rarely, if ever, would anyone dream of becoming a professional credit and collections manager. And it’s unlikely that someone pursues credit and collections with the same passion that millions of people pursue photography. If all credit and collections managers did pursue their jobs with the same amount passion all receivables over 120 days old would be below 2%. And if people dreamed of being credit and collections managers, people would be doing it for free (and no one is, believe me), because companies would have hundreds of graduates of the latest, over priced, School of Credit and Collections, sending them endless promotional pieces and willing to do whatever it takes to get a break.
Many people think that being a photographer is fun. And, I’d agree. It is. It’s also hard work, and, for me at least, lots of long hours. At this point in my life I wouldn’t trade it for much else. People ask me about being or becoming a professional photographer all the time. As in pretty much every day. Personally I don’t have an issue with most questions. I can’t complain about photographers charging rates that are too low, or giving away rights to their images, if I’m not willing to share my knowledge of the business. I really wish more photographers had been willing to share when I was starting out. This is my own personal feeling on the topic, and may or may not have any relevance to the original post, as this is somebody else’s blog.
I also want to mention that ignorance on a career or endeavor is not the sole domain of photography. When I bicycle raced, I was asked at every family function when I was going to “enter the Tour de France.” As if all it took was filling out a form and paying the entry fee. I was also constantly told that I had the coolest job while working as a bike mechanic. The comment was usually followed up with another along the lines of, “I’d love to have your job.” To which I would usually reply, “you can have this job. You’ll just have to give up your job as a defense attorney…”
Now, I could also add, “you could do it in your spare time, as an amateur…”
My response to the editorial debate going on is that it doesn’t pay well, but sometimes they’re fun, which is the same thing those who give away their work say. I’ve done exactly one editorial shoot in the last two years, and have had no shortage of commercial work.
My two cents on the comments regarding resentment by “old timers” (not my phrase), is that there is plenty of resentment. This too, of course, is not limited to photography. Things change, and many people don’t like it.
This leads to my final comment on the of lamented pay of photographers. This, as well, is not limited to photography. The long time writers at the local papers, here in Metro Detroit, used to made big bucks. Eventually a big strike broke out when the papers refused to pay what the writers wanted. This dragged on for years until a crop of younger writers came in as “scabs” and accepted lower pay, breaking the strike and ushering in an era of much lower pay for both the writers and photographers at the paper.
It’s not talent, skills, the number of years of experience, or the difficulty of the job that determines the pay, it’s the amount of demand and the level of supply that usually determines the pay. If someone really wants you (and no one else will do) they’ll pay a lot. If someone else can, and will do it cheaper, well…
Good stuff everyone. I really appreciate the comments. A couple quick things:
Humility is very important to me because I remember the people who treated me like shit on my way up and I’m sure whomever I disrespect now will gladly return the favor on my way back down.
When I post something I usually don’t have time to think through all the implications but I’ve decided that’s what makes the comments so interesting on this blog. I was having a conversation with one of my photo editors about all the inane photography questions we answer when we tell people what we do for a living and decided to post it.
This stupid post a comment box is too small and I need to fix it asap.
I don’t troll the comments looking for photographers to hire but I do think people should always post their websites when not operating anonymously so we can see who we’re talking to.
If people want to share their photography they should post it on Photo Rank. I’m not going to declare it dead after a couple weeks. I’ve discovered some cool photography there.
Telling me I’m an idiot will not end this blog. You are entitled to your opinion. The only thing I know for certain is that there’s so much I don’t know.
Sadly, over Thanksgiving no one showed me photos of TK place that I could use in my magazine if I ever need them.
yikes. a few days and the comments get a bit nasty!
conrad erb (not leaving a website address in order to appease the thread police)
Humility is good. Usually the guys who don’t have it are exactly the guys who should. Ever notice that?
OK people! Dad’s back! Time to be nice! :-)
yes, i’m maybe somewhat older photographer. been in business some time.
in terms of amateur versus professional, one thing that concerns with with the younger crowd is that maybe they miss the ability to light an challenging assignment, and really do not stop to think that what they show in their portfolio will probably not reflect what actual assignments they receive.
i think with these newer digital cameras, they are just too good. it makes it too easy. the good results come too quickly. this is good, but it can also deceive a person also, that they are ready to be a professional, and ready to start out. set camera to auto everything, and pretty good odds that pretty good image will result. but this is only with available light. what happens if they receive a job that requires lighting. what happens to young professional then? they fall on face.
thus, you have whole crop of young photographers running around with auto-cameras, but no knowledge of challenging assignments. no lighting knowledge. my assistants tell me of one photographer who does not know how to light, but he is good with photoshop. so, photographer has to hire assistants with lighting knowledge, and they light picture for him, but then, photographer actually require assistant to sign a form, saying they won’t tell other photographer how they light his pictures.
taking pictures is rather small part of establishing long term career in photography. you might last somewhat long, but not the long term. new easy cameras can be dangerous and deceiving.
wish everyone the best. keep studying.
He leaves the house for weekend, and we trash it!
Just a quick response to the first comment, I am personally aware of at least one of these other professions–its called graphic design. We went through this “digital revolution thing” a decade (or two) ago. So, um, welcome to the club.
@Alan Farkas
I hired a photog because I can’t photograph myself. Well, I can but only with limitations. ANd, I am not talking about the photos being bad because of aesthetics, it was BAD photography. Out of focus (and not because of depth of field playing) I am talking the entire frame out of focus. I may have just started my business in the last year, but I am not a newbie to photography. I have been around enough to appreciate the craft. I just don’t think everyone is PERFECTLY ON all the time. That was my point. Even the high end, supposed to be the best have crappy shots.
he wrote:
@ C- If you are a photographer, why are you hiring one? Each scenario has it’s limitations so it’s hard to know w/o seeing images, but the other issue is a question of aesthetics. Some people look at J. Teller fashion pics and see snap shots, others see pure brilliance. Being relatively new to the craft perhaps your sense of aesthetics hasn’t matured yet. Again w/o seeing imagery any further discussion is pointless.
Posted 24 Nov 2007 at 10:59 pm ¶
Do you become a professional because you love photography, or because you want to make money?
Many amateur or semi-professionals love photography and love the creativity in their hands. New technology has made this even easier for the non-professional. But to try to then make money at it..? I’ll leave that for the pros.
TVLinks…
definitely awesome post, hugely useful and professionally written.. beneficial career…
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