Comments on: Magazines Behaving Badly

By: Dan B

Dan B — Fri, 20 Feb 2009 20:14:15 +0000

@Nancy,

Up until this post I was pretty frustrated reading this thread as I have been encountering the same problems… At least that gave me a good laugh! In a sort of melancholy way at haha

By: bidding hotels

bidding hotels — Sat, 21 Jun 2008 23:51:10 +0000

bidding hotels…

The TrackBack specification was created by Six Apart, who first implemented it in their Movable Type blogging software in August…

By: Andy

Andy — Tue, 17 Jun 2008 05:45:15 +0000

As a working photographer for the last 20 years, this was good to read. When I am chasing late payments, I do appreciate that often its not the fault of the person who has commissioned the job that the payment hasn’t been made, but the accounts dept. It still doesn’t make it any easier to have to carry the expenses for the extra length of time…

good luck with any future hassles you run into….

By: evige belva

evige belva — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 11:38:02 +0000

Even if the subject is already over, I want to inform you that in Italy there is a big company issuing lot of magazines – from pop to high style magazines – called Cairo Editore – that regularly pay contributors bills after one year from publication. Exspenses a little before.

By: Jeff Greenberg

Jeff Greenberg — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 22:50:27 +0000

> one thing we should all remember when having this dialog is that > it is NEVER the photo editor’s fault.
=====
Big fat lie, IMO.
A Photo Editor who knows in advance what’s going to happen is a
Photo Editor who would rather have photos than warn shooter.
That kind of Photo Editor = con artist.

By: mark

mark — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 18:43:26 +0000

@53
Dennis publication(Blender,Maxim etc.), Vibe. These are really bad.

By: T.J.

T.J. — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 18:01:29 +0000

interesting post on heather morton’s blog today. (art buyer). it’s about the bidding process for ad agencies. mildly related to this topic.

http://www.heathermorton.ca/blog/?p=151

By: Picture This

Picture This — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 15:23:33 +0000

As a photo editor working on multiple projects and issues simultaneously, I make a point of moving invoices over to my finance department every week. The ones that usually get hung up on my desk are due to bad documentation of expenses or worse — surprise expenses that were never cleared/discussed in the first place.

One thing that I find surprising is that some photographers (usually the ones rep’d by agencies) take far too long to send invoices over. Sometimes, I have to call/e-mail them or their agents repeatedly to remind them to bill me before the end of the year. I am not sure how they are covering the float on these expenses for these jobs but it makes for messy book keeping on my end (and probably on theirs too). I suspect it is because my job is “small” relative to their other projects. Maybe I can get a discount on the job for late billing…

By: Cicc', a porta!

Cicc', a porta! — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 14:04:03 +0000

It’s hard to tell whether this is a group of photographers or battered women. You get a financial thrashing yet you continue to sleep with the publication, or others like them.

I love photography, but more than that, I love photographers. Interesting, intelligent and creative folks. It’s a shame that the neural trigger that fires creativity doesn’t trigger the body to grow a pair. Publications hire you because of your creative nature. They will pay you promptly if you have the balls to put them in collections and/or serve process for copyright infringement on the 45th day. No exceptions.

And just for fun, you can require AP/CFO info.
Name:
Home address:
Children’s names:
Children’s school:
Pets:
Blood type:
Emergency contact:
Name of individual authorized to claim remains:

By: Thomas Pickard

Thomas Pickard — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 10:33:21 +0000

This post would only be better if you told us the name of the magazine. Maybe that way, when photographers deliberately chose not to work for the publication, it will be forced to pay photographers on time….

By: Full Page

Full Page — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 21:07:48 +0000

I’d like to hear people’s experiences with the whole “Flat Rate” versus “Space Rate” arrangement. It seems to be, the Space Rate was the common practice for years, but now, it seems more and more common to get a phone call offering a Flat Rate fee plus expenses, or even more weirdly, a Flat Rate including expenses.

By: PHIL LAURO

PHIL LAURO — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 21:04:23 +0000

Having been on both sides-a photographer and a (former) magazine
owner,publisher,editor, photo editor, basically the man of many hats, I never, ever not paid a writer or photographer. Just the other day, while going thru old files was a letter by me in response to a really bitchy writer wanting to get paid. My response was, ‘as stated in our guidelines, we pay 30 days after publication. Enclosed is your check for….” And this was 28 days after publication! Needless to say, she never got another assignment from me! Not for the money issue, but just for being a bitch. Be nice. On the photography side, I have always been paid, but the worse was from Indexstock, the now (former stock agency). They were 2-3 YEARS late on payment, but I was finally paid when I threatened the owner that I was sending over my goomba Sicilian cousins. He paid up pronto, and if he didn’t, well lets just say I was not bluffing.
On Mary Ellen Mark bitching you out for 1/2 hr., with any other photographer, you would have hung up on. But she sounds like the major domo sliver-bitch from hell! My god, she probably got paid for that one shoot more than I have ever made in a year in photography. She is RICH, what gall to tear you a new one. “Don’t you KNOW who I am”! She must have sounded like one of those drama queens from the TV show “The L Word” (which us guys only watch for the hot lesbo scenes), but they act totally psycho, and MEM’s behavior did not sound any better. Did she ever work for you again? Or apologize? Oh thats right, when you are SO famous, the little people don’t matter. I was thinking of taking a workshop from her, but not anymore. Or maybe I should and harass her for fun (do a Dianne Arbus for us, please. Besides she was 100 times more talented than you). Please excuse my rambling rant, but it really struck a nerve.

By: dude

dude — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 20:25:50 +0000

Sure Rob, it does all boil down to bad advertisers, but how about the publisher get on the horn with the deadbead advertisers and make the same threats (you don’t pay your bill, we won’t run your ad), or better yet, write it into their contract and actually enforce the thing. Last time I checked, it was the magazine’s publisher who wrote the advertising contract terms.

I know you’re getting the short end of the stick in this situation and I appreciate that you’re trying to make a broken system better, but when running a full page image costs a magazine $400 and a full page ad results in a MINIMUM of $6000-8000 in revenue, I have a hard time standing by and financing Hachette/Conde/Time Inc. It’s called cash flow, and you better believe it is flowing there, except when it’s in the cash is flowing to vendors.

Fact is, it’s a competitive industry and only the big deal people like Mary Ellen, Annie, Steven (M or S), Jim Nachtwey, etc. have enough clout to throw around or make any sort of threat that would actually make a noticeable difference in the magazine’s look and/or sales.

I mean, I have had checks from the above mentioned publishers come 9 months or a year PAST DUE (ie: past their 90 policy), but I can imagine who it would hurt more if I decided to pull a hissy fit on them. You should feel honored to have gotten a new one torn by MEM in person. I hear she’s much less intimidating than Annie and Jim dodges bullets for a living (literally) so I can imagine he would be pretty formidable.

After all, ask yourself how many publishing companies have their own high-rise building and then ask how many photographers do…

By: The Wild West « The Lab Log

The Wild West « The Lab Log — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 17:39:31 +0000

[...] Another post by Rob Haggart aka A Photo Editor discusses how big magazines are bending under the pressure of big advertisers and passing along all that bad behavior to the poor editorial photographers. Basically, they hold the cards so they feel they can manipulate the game. [...]

By: Keeney

Keeney — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 16:14:37 +0000

We always get in touch with the accounting dept in these situations (and normally end up getting paid in a relatively short amount of time). I act nice, and normally get pretty good response… I’ve never had a problem getting an accountants email from a photo ed, either…

By: Leslie B-D'A

Leslie B-D'A — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 15:49:21 +0000

You want to make it as easy as possible to pay you as well. Send a completed W9 to all new clients with the invoice (and get an EIN even if you are a sole proprietor to protect your SSN from getting too much exposure). Ask new clients how they want to be invoiced (duplicate? On pink frilly paper? Whatever it takes…) and who the contact person will be in Accounts Payable (AP)–before you invoice. Ask if you should submit a copy directly to AP as well as to the PE…just, in general, find out how that client works then follow their steps as much as possible so that they have no excuse for not paying you on time.

Then follow up with the AP person after submitting the invoice to make sure it is being processed. Be nice to the AP person and remember to thank her/him…lots.

Don’t bother the PE or other creatives with billing/payment hell if at all possible as it is rarely something they have much control over.

Finally, politely but firmly hold their feet to the fire about getting paid. That’s not being an ass, that’s running your business professionally.

By: Kevin

Kevin — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 15:33:48 +0000

Liz, I think the suggestion of asking the photo editor if there is someone else you can contact is a good one I forgot to mention. I always ask that if my first call to the photo editor doesn’t get me paid. The last thing I want to do is harass a photo editor for money. I know it’s not their department, so letting them know I’m not mad at them personally seems like a good way to go about dealing with them.

Don’t shoot the messenger, or something like that. Particularly when they’re the ones that hire you.

By: Mario

Mario — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 15:17:39 +0000

God forbid you are 5 friggin minutes late delivering the images though.

By: Liz

Liz — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 13:33:54 +0000

I used to work as a photo director. I now run an agency and am amazed at the time I spend tracking down payments.
A few tips I have found from being now on both sides of the billing game are:
1. Follow up on the bill prior to the 30 days. Just send a quick email or call – “just checking in to make sure the bill is being processed and nothing is holding it up?” It seems everything can hold up a bill… Signed Contract, receipts, someone being on vacation, a question from a managing editor that doesn’t get answered etc. etc. In that same email I attach the invoice again.
2. Be very nice to the photo editor and ask if there is someone else you can contact regarding the matter of payment. Managing editors seem to be helpful at times when dealing with this.

By: Pixgremlin

Pixgremlin — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 13:02:10 +0000

Every now and then, we have an invoice going the wrong way and never gets to account and then on the day that we go to press, said picture agency suspend our account. We’ve learnt our lesson. Now, when it comes to commissioning photographers and the jobs done, after an invoice has been sent out to me, I make sure I call the ‘tog a 2 weeks later to find out whether payment has been made or not so I can do the relevant. The last thing you want is a situation that karma, as you say, comes back to haunt you.

By: Eric Hamilton

Eric Hamilton — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 10:09:59 +0000

Sounds like a whole lot of photographers really need to read that book, and look at the Dun and Bradstreet website.

I send clients to collections THE SAME DAY their account goes past due. NO EXCEPTIONS. NO EXCUSES.

You guys are getting pushed around because you let them push you around. Let them deal with people who squeeze blood out of stones for a living. Sure, they take a chunk of the bill, but 70% of something is better than 100% of nothing.

AND you don’t waste any of your time dealing with non-payment. That’s a HUGE relief for me. I don’t have time to think as it is, let alone waste time on the phone with people who’ve let the due date slip (and that happens all to often!)

By: team-ream

team-ream — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 08:51:53 +0000

Real talk! As someone who still assists more than I shoot, it’s a real cold one when a photog tells me I’m not getting paid till they do. Doesn’t happen too often, but there’s some dodgy folks out there. Also, my first published image, 19 years old, double-truck, no idea what I was doing, but had what someone needed when they needed it. Needless to say, my naivety was obvious and these cats had a new excuse every time until they stopped taking my calls, which they did until they mysteriously disappeared. I had to show up in the New York office (I live in California!) just to get my tears!

By: Robb Scharetg

Robb Scharetg — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 04:14:36 +0000

Just one more thing: r.e. the comments regarding -’copyright/grant of reproduction rights NOT licensed until payment made in full’, judging from the stories related on here in this thread, along with my own personal experiences it seems like we should just forgo that line.

I know, I know-we have to have it, in order to prove ‘willful infringement’, etc. However, do you REALLY think that accounting/AP AND the CFO really give a rat’s _ _ _ about that?

IF we were like FedEx, Getty, Corbis, et. al., or the Water or Power companies, or even the printers MAYBE pubs. would care. But they pay late, when it’s ‘financially convenient’ AND ignore any interest charges we try to pass on. After all, they have ‘on staff counsel’, we don’t. I’m SURE that IF they got a late C/C bill with an interest charge on it though there’d be no arguing about paying that. Right?

Sorry to be so cynical, but unless we CAN turn off their power, or NOT print the pub we’re basically held hostage. Witness Mary Ellen Mark’s experience . . . we’re all just content providers in the eyes of the money people. Oh to be Getty, and shut down the image pipeline, if ONLY for a day!

By: Chris Schultz

Chris Schultz — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 04:00:52 +0000

For all of the fellow celeb shooters, try adding a line to your invoice’s terms and conditions that requires payment within 30 days or prior to publication other the client forfeits their embargo.

They want that exclusive bad enough they’ll pay on time to make sure they get it.

By: Robb Scharetg

Robb Scharetg — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 03:58:32 +0000

Hello Rob,

Boy, talk about timely! I’ve been wondering for some time now if/when you’d get around to this aspect of the business.

Of course this is a thread that COULD have unlimited entries, I’m SURE we have ALL dealt with these situations and the anger, frustration, confusion and angst it causes-to say NOTHING of occasionally explaining to OUR vendors, bankers, etc. why we can’t pay our bills on time.

Suffice it to say it’s ‘not right, NOT fair, not ethical, etc., etc., etc.,’, however from the CFO’s p.o.v. it’s just ‘good business’. Then again the CFO probably sees photographers, and their images as ‘just widgets’, so why pay for now what you can pay for later and keep the money to earn interest on in the interim? Besides, as mentioned ‘there’s always another one waiting for that next job’.

In a perfect world we’d all band together and ‘boycott’ the pubs. with bad contracts, rights grabs, bad payment schedules, etc. Hah! Like that’ll EVER happen.

I have a lot of regular editorial clients, and I like the P.E.s and ADs at all of the pubs. Some pay net 30, some net 60 and few @ 90 days. Maddening. The one magazine client, the ONLY one that ALWAYS pays in UNDER 30 days is Guideposts. Granted, perhaps not the (insert name here) of ‘Big Media’, but they have it right there in their P.O. (you all get those, right?) along with the usage to be licensed is: “PAYMENT WILL BE MADE IN 30 Days. OR LESS”.

Maybe it’s the fact that it’s a Christian Publication? Maybe they just want to do right by those that do right by them? Who knows?

According to the EP database (last updated 6/2005!) their page
rate for one 4/C page was $85K+. Circ. 2.7M. They have a lot of ad pages, a good business model, interesting assignments AND they pay on time. What’s wrong with this picture?

Thanks for the venue you’ve created, it’s a wonderful two way forum!

Regards

Robb Scharetg

By: kristiina

kristiina — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 03:39:24 +0000

@24 — thank you for this, eric! great resource.

my lawyer does an excellent job with a simple phone call or letter (posted, not emailed). that always gets a check, fedexed, within 1-2 business days. and costs me $0. she is the best!

By: Joshua Meador

Joshua Meador — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 03:10:48 +0000

Great post Rob. I must say that you left Men’s Journal in a good place though. I was payed in about 30 days from the time of invoice.

By: inventory

inventory — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 01:13:26 +0000

“I always pay my credit card in full, but wonder what it’s like for people who carry a balance.”

I was forced to carry a balance after severe equipment failure last summer. Late payment has meant it has taken me until now to clear that balance as the interest would make it more and more difficult to put a hole in the balance. One national radio station took over four months to pay up expenses they owed me! That really hurt!

By: Chris Crisman

Chris Crisman — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 23:10:30 +0000

I’ve got a non-payment situation that is now past 270 days. If you’re interested, here’s one email from the editor: “How to put it – other than we ran into an unfortunate situation with our sales agency – basically the publisher found out they were giving ads away this fall for buying in the spring…all came to a head when the publisher started calling agencies asking why the hell invoices 120 days old were not being paid. We are now a good $300,000 in the hole. Before enlightening me of this he went to our investor (who is funding our parenting site) and has convinced him to give us debt financing in ——-. The money will be in sometime in February, and your invoice will be paid the next day.”

It’s now mid-march and after my tenth follow-up I received an email asking if I wanted a check that is back dated to May. They also “promised” me interest on the past due payment. I don’t think either will end up happening and I’m shocked they’re still in business.

By: steven wright

steven wright — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 23:00:41 +0000

(sound of joint being rolled and lit. sound of exhale).

wow, this conversation is really bumming me out, man. all weekend long, and now, rob leads off the week with another (realistic) downer post like this.

i’m working on software that will FTP a password to my TIFF files, even after they’re in place at the magazine, that will drop one Layer, and expose the underlying Layer, if the Invoice has not been paid. you’ll be able to choose between CarrotTop, a picture of an empty parking lot shot with ringlight, or that picture of Britney exiting the car. If the magazine doesn’t pay the invoice, my picture disappears, and the gag photo gets printed in the magazine.

Speaking of empty parking lots, if you want to cheer up, wander over to Joerg’s site, and read that amazing interview with Joakim Eskildsen. Now THERE is a man with commitment to photography. And images to match. Pentax 6×7, film, and two lenses; that’s all a man needs. Seven YEARS devoted to one project.

(sound of another exhale).