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	<title>Comments on: The Obama Hope Poster, Shepard Fairey and photographer Mannie Garcia</title>
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	<link>http://www.aphotoeditor.com/2009/01/27/the-obama-hope-poster-shepard-fairey-and-photographer-mannie-garcia/</link>
	<description>Former Photography Director Rob Haggart</description>
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		<title>By: Fair Use? &#171; B Ray</title>
		<link>http://www.aphotoeditor.com/2009/01/27/the-obama-hope-poster-shepard-fairey-and-photographer-mannie-garcia/comment-page-1/#comment-39136</link>
		<dc:creator>Fair Use? &#171; B Ray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Mar 2009 06:07:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aphotoeditor.com/?p=1847#comment-39136</guid>
		<description>[...] Personal Opinion and Response to the National Public Radio broadcast on  Fresh Air from WHYY, February 26, 2009:  Law professor Greg Lastowka talks with Fresh Air about the intellectual-property issues involved in what might be called the audacity-of-&#8220;Hope&#8221; case. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div style="padding: 1em; background-color: #FFF8DC">[...] Personal Opinion and Response to the National Public Radio broadcast on  Fresh Air from WHYY, February 26, 2009:  Law professor Greg Lastowka talks with Fresh Air about the intellectual-property issues involved in what might be called the audacity-of-&#8220;Hope&#8221; case. [...]</div>
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		<title>By: Xerox</title>
		<link>http://www.aphotoeditor.com/2009/01/27/the-obama-hope-poster-shepard-fairey-and-photographer-mannie-garcia/comment-page-1/#comment-37893</link>
		<dc:creator>Xerox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Feb 2009 07:44:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aphotoeditor.com/?p=1847#comment-37893</guid>
		<description>Maybe Hillary was right after all:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gelatobaby/2285248646/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe Hillary was right after all:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/gelatobaby/2285248646/" rel="nofollow">http://www.flickr.com/photos/gelatobaby/2285248646/</a></p>
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		<title>By: canadada</title>
		<link>http://www.aphotoeditor.com/2009/01/27/the-obama-hope-poster-shepard-fairey-and-photographer-mannie-garcia/comment-page-1/#comment-37750</link>
		<dc:creator>canadada</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Feb 2009 16:18:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aphotoeditor.com/?p=1847#comment-37750</guid>
		<description>... VERY INTERESTING debate ... to have FUN with this go to http://obamicon.me. This site was created by Paste Magazine. It is a graphic interface that allows you to upload any photograph of YOURS and zap it a la Fairey ...  (hey, who&#039;s really zooming who here ????) 

Is ANY of it &#039;ART&#039; ? Well, for me, NO, but hey, I&#039;m willing to PLAY with both the mechanics of photography AND computer graphics, but if you want a real genuine and ORIGINAL hand-crafted Obama Portrait, put a pencil or paint brush in my hand and let ME do it all by my Self ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230; VERY INTERESTING debate &#8230; to have FUN with this go to <a href="http://obamicon.me" rel="nofollow">http://obamicon.me</a>. This site was created by Paste Magazine. It is a graphic interface that allows you to upload any photograph of YOURS and zap it a la Fairey &#8230;  (hey, who&#8217;s really zooming who here ????) </p>
<p>Is ANY of it &#8216;ART&#8217; ? Well, for me, NO, but hey, I&#8217;m willing to PLAY with both the mechanics of photography AND computer graphics, but if you want a real genuine and ORIGINAL hand-crafted Obama Portrait, put a pencil or paint brush in my hand and let ME do it all by my Self &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Obama-ville &#8230; (an artsy-fartsy post) &#171; Canadada</title>
		<link>http://www.aphotoeditor.com/2009/01/27/the-obama-hope-poster-shepard-fairey-and-photographer-mannie-garcia/comment-page-1/#comment-37741</link>
		<dc:creator>Obama-ville &#8230; (an artsy-fartsy post) &#171; Canadada</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Feb 2009 14:23:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aphotoeditor.com/?p=1847#comment-37741</guid>
		<description>[...] (Fairey&#8217;s graphic art computer-generated image of Obama was BASED on Mannie Garcia&#8217;s original PHOTOGRAPH of same. This FACT has recently turned into a very interesting  tussle between legal eagles over on -going issues within the realms of &#8216;copyright&#8217;, &#8216;trespass&#8217; and &#8216;fair use&#8217;  &#8230; If interested in following this &#8216;debate&#8217;, see: &#8230; http://www.aphotoeditor.com/2009/01/27/the-obama-hope-poster-shepard-fairey-and-photographer-mannie-...) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div style="padding: 1em; background-color: #FFF8DC">[...] (Fairey&#8217;s graphic art computer-generated image of Obama was BASED on Mannie Garcia&#8217;s original PHOTOGRAPH of same. This FACT has recently turned into a very interesting  tussle between legal eagles over on -going issues within the realms of &#8216;copyright&#8217;, &#8216;trespass&#8217; and &#8216;fair use&#8217;  &#8230; If interested in following this &#8216;debate&#8217;, see: &#8230; <a href="http://www.aphotoeditor.com/2009/01/27/the-obama-hope-poster-shepard-fairey-and-photographer-mannie-...)" rel="nofollow">http://www.aphotoeditor.com/2009/01/27/the-obama-hope-poster-shepard-fairey-and-photographer-mannie-&#8230;)</a> [...]</div>
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		<title>By: The Stand</title>
		<link>http://www.aphotoeditor.com/2009/01/27/the-obama-hope-poster-shepard-fairey-and-photographer-mannie-garcia/comment-page-1/#comment-37651</link>
		<dc:creator>The Stand</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Feb 2009 06:48:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aphotoeditor.com/?p=1847#comment-37651</guid>
		<description>Mannie was under contract. I think the Associated Press would know if the image was owned by them or not. If anything Mannie should have read the fine print.

The Associated Press situation involving the artist Shepard Fairey and allegations of copyright infringement has taken a twist. Shepard Fairey’s legal team broke settlement negotiations with the AP on Friday. Earlier today the artist filed against the AP in hopes of gaining a supportive decision from a judge concerning his use of the AP owned photograph which served as the base image for three versions of Fairey‘s Obama posters.The AP wants to make it clear that works by photographers and artists should not be misappropriated by others.

This case will be important because if Shepard Fairey wins it could mean that any photograph or image of art is fair game. This year will either be a major blow for copyright or a year that brings a clear definition of what fair use is.

More on the story, 

http://www.myartspace.com/blog/2009/02/shepard-fairey-sues-associated-press.html

And why Baxter Orr&#039;s poster involving Fairey&#039;s Obey Giant is fair use, 
http://www.myartspace.com/blog/2009/02/fair-use-shepard-fairey-and-baxter-orr.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mannie was under contract. I think the Associated Press would know if the image was owned by them or not. If anything Mannie should have read the fine print.</p>
<p>The Associated Press situation involving the artist Shepard Fairey and allegations of copyright infringement has taken a twist. Shepard Fairey’s legal team broke settlement negotiations with the AP on Friday. Earlier today the artist filed against the AP in hopes of gaining a supportive decision from a judge concerning his use of the AP owned photograph which served as the base image for three versions of Fairey‘s Obama posters.The AP wants to make it clear that works by photographers and artists should not be misappropriated by others.</p>
<p>This case will be important because if Shepard Fairey wins it could mean that any photograph or image of art is fair game. This year will either be a major blow for copyright or a year that brings a clear definition of what fair use is.</p>
<p>More on the story, </p>
<p><a href="http://www.myartspace.com/blog/2009/02/shepard-fairey-sues-associated-press.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.myartspace.com/blog/2009/02/shepard-fairey-sues-associated-press.html</a></p>
<p>And why Baxter Orr&#8217;s poster involving Fairey&#8217;s Obey Giant is fair use,<br />
<a href="http://www.myartspace.com/blog/2009/02/fair-use-shepard-fairey-and-baxter-orr.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.myartspace.com/blog/2009/02/fair-use-shepard-fairey-and-baxter-orr.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Gabriel</title>
		<link>http://www.aphotoeditor.com/2009/01/27/the-obama-hope-poster-shepard-fairey-and-photographer-mannie-garcia/comment-page-1/#comment-37484</link>
		<dc:creator>Gabriel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 20:45:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aphotoeditor.com/?p=1847#comment-37484</guid>
		<description>Should be an interesting outcome, Since Manny was not under AP contract when he took the photo.  He owns it outright.  AP has no legitimate claim other than they that they claim to own it. hehehhe</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Should be an interesting outcome, Since Manny was not under AP contract when he took the photo.  He owns it outright.  AP has no legitimate claim other than they that they claim to own it. hehehhe</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Blow</title>
		<link>http://www.aphotoeditor.com/2009/01/27/the-obama-hope-poster-shepard-fairey-and-photographer-mannie-garcia/comment-page-1/#comment-37443</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Blow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 14:12:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aphotoeditor.com/?p=1847#comment-37443</guid>
		<description>also  check out this...   http://www.art-for-a-change.com/Obey/index.htm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>also  check out this&#8230;   <a href="http://www.art-for-a-change.com/Obey/index.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.art-for-a-change.com/Obey/index.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: Joe Barillaro</title>
		<link>http://www.aphotoeditor.com/2009/01/27/the-obama-hope-poster-shepard-fairey-and-photographer-mannie-garcia/comment-page-1/#comment-37442</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Barillaro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 14:11:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aphotoeditor.com/?p=1847#comment-37442</guid>
		<description>shepard fairey...

  step 1.. find photo

step 2..  run through a crummy copy machine

step 3..  color in shapes

 step 4.. make silk screens

step 5.. sell millions</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>shepard fairey&#8230;</p>
<p>  step 1.. find photo</p>
<p>step 2..  run through a crummy copy machine</p>
<p>step 3..  color in shapes</p>
<p> step 4.. make silk screens</p>
<p>step 5.. sell millions</p>
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		<title>By: NObey</title>
		<link>http://www.aphotoeditor.com/2009/01/27/the-obama-hope-poster-shepard-fairey-and-photographer-mannie-garcia/comment-page-1/#comment-37431</link>
		<dc:creator>NObey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 06:30:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aphotoeditor.com/?p=1847#comment-37431</guid>
		<description>@illustrator, Shepard Fairey is not just an illustrator. He is also considered a fine artist. If he created the image for a corporation I can see your point, but he created this image on his own time not as part of his business per se.

It is not about how nice or lovable you think Shepard Fairey is nor is it about how hard he works. No one is questioning the good that he has done or how hard he works. What people are questioning is the fact that he has willfully infringed on copyrights several times. In one interview he actually said that if he is &quot;busted&quot;, which is what he calls being caught for infringement, he hopes that it is a &quot;good bust&quot;, does not involve legal action.

People are outraged because the same thing that happened to the music industry is now trying to happen against the visual art industry. Contrary to popular belief for many of us art is a business. We create out of passion and if we can profit from it good. But how can an artist profit from hard work and dedication if an artist like Shepard Fairey can take from that work and do what he sees fit to it FOR PROFIT while holding on to a fragile foundation of fair use. If we follow Fairey&#039;s idea of fair use all images would be up for grabs. He tends to use images that are not widely known. That is why fair use does not apply. The photograph of Obama itself was not a widely known photograph.

I&#039;m personally sick of people using Warhol and others to defend Shepard Fairey. Warhol used images that the public knew of. Everyone knew that his Monroe&#039;s were a comment/parody of the famous photograph. The same thing goes for the soup cans. Under fair use today it would be perfectly acceptable to do that. Fairey failed at fair use because people did not make the connection between the photograph and his posters. That is because the photograph itself is not widely known. In order to claim fair use you almost have to use an iconic image as the foundation of the new work. Fairey is only saying it is fair use to cover himself and he is not doing a very good job of that.

Since he donated over $400,000 to the Obama campaign from his profits selling the posters I hope that he will have to give $400,000 to the AP if indeed they are the copyright holder. I also think that members of the Obama campaign need to be questioned and perhaps included in any copyright infringement case that comes of this. Workers from the former campaign are now saying that they never suggested a photograph to Shepard Fairey but other articles from last year suggest the opposite. Either Shepard Fairey is a liar or the former Obama workers are. 

If this case goes to court and Shepard Fairey loses to the AP it will be a great win for artists who support copyright protection. It will help to define the limits of fair use... which ARE LIMITED in the first place. Copyright laws were not made to protect people who willfully steal. They were made to protect creators so that they will continue to create knowing their work is safe. If you have not noticed there has been a boom in the number of artists since strict copyright laws have been around. Copyright creates an environment that respects creativity. People would not openly show their works if they thought someone could use it without giving them credit. 

Maybe Obama will make a statement about the importance of copyright laws. I think he should apologize for supporting a poster that violated a US law. If he can take the time to send Fairey a personal letter thanking him for his images and for putting work on stop signs I&#039;d think he can take the time to address copyright and why we have it in the first place. 

The poster failed at fair use because people did not make the connection with the original image. The basis of fair use is that you comment or parody another work. If that connection isn&#039;t made fair use does not apply. Saying that the public or the AP is silly for not making the connection only helps strengthen the case against Fairey. Keep it up.

There is only three reasons people defend Fairey. They are fan boys. They think a slam against the Hope poster is a slam against Obama. Or they don&#039;t care about copyright in the first place. If this was just some kid posting altered AP images everyone would agree with APs choice to seek compensation. 

There are many artists who have alleged the same thing about Fairey. So if AP wins it will open the doors for others to file against Fairey. The guy could be a pauper before it is over and it is because of his poor choices. He should have learned after settling out of court when he infringed on the copyright of Rene Mederos.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@illustrator, Shepard Fairey is not just an illustrator. He is also considered a fine artist. If he created the image for a corporation I can see your point, but he created this image on his own time not as part of his business per se.</p>
<p>It is not about how nice or lovable you think Shepard Fairey is nor is it about how hard he works. No one is questioning the good that he has done or how hard he works. What people are questioning is the fact that he has willfully infringed on copyrights several times. In one interview he actually said that if he is &#8220;busted&#8221;, which is what he calls being caught for infringement, he hopes that it is a &#8220;good bust&#8221;, does not involve legal action.</p>
<p>People are outraged because the same thing that happened to the music industry is now trying to happen against the visual art industry. Contrary to popular belief for many of us art is a business. We create out of passion and if we can profit from it good. But how can an artist profit from hard work and dedication if an artist like Shepard Fairey can take from that work and do what he sees fit to it FOR PROFIT while holding on to a fragile foundation of fair use. If we follow Fairey&#8217;s idea of fair use all images would be up for grabs. He tends to use images that are not widely known. That is why fair use does not apply. The photograph of Obama itself was not a widely known photograph.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m personally sick of people using Warhol and others to defend Shepard Fairey. Warhol used images that the public knew of. Everyone knew that his Monroe&#8217;s were a comment/parody of the famous photograph. The same thing goes for the soup cans. Under fair use today it would be perfectly acceptable to do that. Fairey failed at fair use because people did not make the connection between the photograph and his posters. That is because the photograph itself is not widely known. In order to claim fair use you almost have to use an iconic image as the foundation of the new work. Fairey is only saying it is fair use to cover himself and he is not doing a very good job of that.</p>
<p>Since he donated over $400,000 to the Obama campaign from his profits selling the posters I hope that he will have to give $400,000 to the AP if indeed they are the copyright holder. I also think that members of the Obama campaign need to be questioned and perhaps included in any copyright infringement case that comes of this. Workers from the former campaign are now saying that they never suggested a photograph to Shepard Fairey but other articles from last year suggest the opposite. Either Shepard Fairey is a liar or the former Obama workers are. </p>
<p>If this case goes to court and Shepard Fairey loses to the AP it will be a great win for artists who support copyright protection. It will help to define the limits of fair use&#8230; which ARE LIMITED in the first place. Copyright laws were not made to protect people who willfully steal. They were made to protect creators so that they will continue to create knowing their work is safe. If you have not noticed there has been a boom in the number of artists since strict copyright laws have been around. Copyright creates an environment that respects creativity. People would not openly show their works if they thought someone could use it without giving them credit. </p>
<p>Maybe Obama will make a statement about the importance of copyright laws. I think he should apologize for supporting a poster that violated a US law. If he can take the time to send Fairey a personal letter thanking him for his images and for putting work on stop signs I&#8217;d think he can take the time to address copyright and why we have it in the first place. </p>
<p>The poster failed at fair use because people did not make the connection with the original image. The basis of fair use is that you comment or parody another work. If that connection isn&#8217;t made fair use does not apply. Saying that the public or the AP is silly for not making the connection only helps strengthen the case against Fairey. Keep it up.</p>
<p>There is only three reasons people defend Fairey. They are fan boys. They think a slam against the Hope poster is a slam against Obama. Or they don&#8217;t care about copyright in the first place. If this was just some kid posting altered AP images everyone would agree with APs choice to seek compensation. </p>
<p>There are many artists who have alleged the same thing about Fairey. So if AP wins it will open the doors for others to file against Fairey. The guy could be a pauper before it is over and it is because of his poor choices. He should have learned after settling out of court when he infringed on the copyright of Rene Mederos.</p>
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		<title>By: illustrator</title>
		<link>http://www.aphotoeditor.com/2009/01/27/the-obama-hope-poster-shepard-fairey-and-photographer-mannie-garcia/comment-page-1/#comment-37348</link>
		<dc:creator>illustrator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Feb 2009 04:04:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aphotoeditor.com/?p=1847#comment-37348</guid>
		<description>First of all, illustrators have lost the rights to their own work as most companies now will only work with artists who sign &quot;work for hire&quot; agreements that transfer all rights to the purchasing company who would collect for themselves any resale commissions of the original artwork. Secondly, illustration is now often outsourced to countries such as India. Houghton Mifflin, one of the largest k-12 publishers, for instance, now primarily outsources to India for pennies on the dollar which halves an illustrator&#039;s income at best if they are to compete. Thirdly, reps take 25% at the very least. Such factors as these make it next to impossible to imagine having to compensate source material holders especially to leviathons such as AP who own the rights – not Garcia – and put food on the table at the end of the day. (Garcia gets a thank you, AP gets the kick-backs.)

I imagine that artists — as Mannie does – understand the creative process and respect the flow of creativity that is sparked from one source to a new one  making it unique. It&#039;s the corporate world (bestowing billions in bonuses to themselves after taking TARP money) who would pry every bit of compensation they can muster from a struggling illustrator in the name of derivative infringement. 

Albeit, Fairey is very successful and not one of the strugglers. But 99% of the working artists in America work 12 hour days seven days a week 365 days a year to turn what&#039;s effectively an hourly minimum wage into a survivable living. We can&#039;t afford to take our own photographs. Say you get $500 to do a quarter page editorial spot of Obama for Newsweek (less – $200 a spot for textbooks). How can you then afford to do a photo shoot? And getting a good likeness of someone so recognizable from a compilation of source photographs takes hours and hours of refinement to nail. Then you could be told by the art director that s/he doesn&#039;t like that angle, please re-do from a new angle. Color then needs to be applied and, most likely, further changes will be ordered by the art director. So now you&#039;ve most likely averaged about ten dollars an hour on the job and would be richer flipping burgers. 

What I&#039;m trying to say is that without using photos as a basis for our work, Illustrators in America would not survive. Only the one&#039;s in India would and AP would probably have little luck suing them!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First of all, illustrators have lost the rights to their own work as most companies now will only work with artists who sign &#8220;work for hire&#8221; agreements that transfer all rights to the purchasing company who would collect for themselves any resale commissions of the original artwork. Secondly, illustration is now often outsourced to countries such as India. Houghton Mifflin, one of the largest k-12 publishers, for instance, now primarily outsources to India for pennies on the dollar which halves an illustrator&#8217;s income at best if they are to compete. Thirdly, reps take 25% at the very least. Such factors as these make it next to impossible to imagine having to compensate source material holders especially to leviathons such as AP who own the rights – not Garcia – and put food on the table at the end of the day. (Garcia gets a thank you, AP gets the kick-backs.)</p>
<p>I imagine that artists — as Mannie does – understand the creative process and respect the flow of creativity that is sparked from one source to a new one  making it unique. It&#8217;s the corporate world (bestowing billions in bonuses to themselves after taking TARP money) who would pry every bit of compensation they can muster from a struggling illustrator in the name of derivative infringement. </p>
<p>Albeit, Fairey is very successful and not one of the strugglers. But 99% of the working artists in America work 12 hour days seven days a week 365 days a year to turn what&#8217;s effectively an hourly minimum wage into a survivable living. We can&#8217;t afford to take our own photographs. Say you get $500 to do a quarter page editorial spot of Obama for Newsweek (less – $200 a spot for textbooks). How can you then afford to do a photo shoot? And getting a good likeness of someone so recognizable from a compilation of source photographs takes hours and hours of refinement to nail. Then you could be told by the art director that s/he doesn&#8217;t like that angle, please re-do from a new angle. Color then needs to be applied and, most likely, further changes will be ordered by the art director. So now you&#8217;ve most likely averaged about ten dollars an hour on the job and would be richer flipping burgers. </p>
<p>What I&#8217;m trying to say is that without using photos as a basis for our work, Illustrators in America would not survive. Only the one&#8217;s in India would and AP would probably have little luck suing them!</p>
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		<title>By: Ray</title>
		<link>http://www.aphotoeditor.com/2009/01/27/the-obama-hope-poster-shepard-fairey-and-photographer-mannie-garcia/comment-page-1/#comment-37312</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 15:03:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aphotoeditor.com/?p=1847#comment-37312</guid>
		<description>Fairey&#039;s infringement issues go way beyond Mannie Garcia. Look at the link.

http://www.myartspace.com/blog/2009/02/jamie-oshea-obeys-shepard-fairey-by.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fairey&#8217;s infringement issues go way beyond Mannie Garcia. Look at the link.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.myartspace.com/blog/2009/02/jamie-oshea-obeys-shepard-fairey-by.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.myartspace.com/blog/2009/02/jamie-oshea-obeys-shepard-fairey-by.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://www.aphotoeditor.com/2009/01/27/the-obama-hope-poster-shepard-fairey-and-photographer-mannie-garcia/comment-page-1/#comment-37304</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 13:13:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aphotoeditor.com/?p=1847#comment-37304</guid>
		<description>Nobody has seen the very similar photo taken by Jim Young of Reuters?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nobody has seen the very similar photo taken by Jim Young of Reuters?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Richard L. Enison</title>
		<link>http://www.aphotoeditor.com/2009/01/27/the-obama-hope-poster-shepard-fairey-and-photographer-mannie-garcia/comment-page-1/#comment-37243</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard L. Enison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Feb 2009 09:18:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aphotoeditor.com/?p=1847#comment-37243</guid>
		<description>Regarding the issue of non-copyrightability of photos: this puzzles me. Because the photographic company that comes every few years to my church to take pictures of members for our directory (for a fee, no doubt), turns around and sells copies of our own pictures to us (if we&#039;re interested in buying them). That is, in addition to the limited number of small copies we get at no additional charge. In the package my copies came in is a legal statement saying that these photos (of me!) are copyrighted by the photographic company and I am not allowed to use or make copies of them, either photostatically, electronically, or otherwise, without their permission. They are claiming ownership not only of the artistic arrangement of the photos on the pages of the directory, but of each individual photo itself. I am having a hard time reconciling that with statements made on this web page. I guess that&#039;s why I&#039;m not a lawyer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding the issue of non-copyrightability of photos: this puzzles me. Because the photographic company that comes every few years to my church to take pictures of members for our directory (for a fee, no doubt), turns around and sells copies of our own pictures to us (if we&#8217;re interested in buying them). That is, in addition to the limited number of small copies we get at no additional charge. In the package my copies came in is a legal statement saying that these photos (of me!) are copyrighted by the photographic company and I am not allowed to use or make copies of them, either photostatically, electronically, or otherwise, without their permission. They are claiming ownership not only of the artistic arrangement of the photos on the pages of the directory, but of each individual photo itself. I am having a hard time reconciling that with statements made on this web page. I guess that&#8217;s why I&#8217;m not a lawyer.</p>
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		<title>By: Brooks Ayola</title>
		<link>http://www.aphotoeditor.com/2009/01/27/the-obama-hope-poster-shepard-fairey-and-photographer-mannie-garcia/comment-page-1/#comment-37220</link>
		<dc:creator>Brooks Ayola</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2009 19:25:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aphotoeditor.com/?p=1847#comment-37220</guid>
		<description>Hey Rob... I thought this might be a good place to post this link... Read the story about Frank Ockenfels and an Obama/Fairey t-shirt on the auction.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;item=160312817014

Oh, and don&#039;t be afraid to bid, people. My kid goes there too. :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Rob&#8230; I thought this might be a good place to post this link&#8230; Read the story about Frank Ockenfels and an Obama/Fairey t-shirt on the auction.</p>
<p><a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;item=160312817014" rel="nofollow">http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;item=160312817014</a></p>
<p>Oh, and don&#8217;t be afraid to bid, people. My kid goes there too. :-)</p>
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		<title>By: Copyright, Fair Use, and Obama Campaign Posters &#171; Problems To Solve</title>
		<link>http://www.aphotoeditor.com/2009/01/27/the-obama-hope-poster-shepard-fairey-and-photographer-mannie-garcia/comment-page-1/#comment-37133</link>
		<dc:creator>Copyright, Fair Use, and Obama Campaign Posters &#171; Problems To Solve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jan 2009 19:50:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aphotoeditor.com/?p=1847#comment-37133</guid>
		<description>[...] Copyright, Fair Use, and Obama Campaign&#160;Posters   Published January 30, 2009   Copyright       Source: Derivatives - more than Calculus » Alvin’s Educational Technology Blog More: Copyright Infringement And Obama&#8217;s Iconic Campaign Poster Still More: The Obama Hope Poster, Shepard Fairey and photographer Mannie Garcia [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div style="padding: 1em; background-color: #FFF8DC">[...] Copyright, Fair Use, and Obama Campaign&nbsp;Posters   Published January 30, 2009   Copyright       Source: Derivatives &#8211; more than Calculus » Alvin’s Educational Technology Blog More: Copyright Infringement And Obama&#8217;s Iconic Campaign Poster Still More: The Obama Hope Poster, Shepard Fairey and photographer Mannie Garcia [...]</div>
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		<title>By: DesignNotes by Michael Surtees &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Link Drop Contextd for the Week Ending in Friday the 30th (January 2009)</title>
		<link>http://www.aphotoeditor.com/2009/01/27/the-obama-hope-poster-shepard-fairey-and-photographer-mannie-garcia/comment-page-1/#comment-37119</link>
		<dc:creator>DesignNotes by Michael Surtees &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Link Drop Contextd for the Week Ending in Friday the 30th (January 2009)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jan 2009 16:21:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aphotoeditor.com/?p=1847#comment-37119</guid>
		<description>[...] The Obama Hope Poster, Shepard Fairey and photographer Mannie Garcia  Luv this iconic poster, interesting conversation about it [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div style="padding: 1em; background-color: #FFF8DC">[...] The Obama Hope Poster, Shepard Fairey and photographer Mannie Garcia  Luv this iconic poster, interesting conversation about it [...]</div>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Alvin&#8217;s Educational Technology Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Derivatives - more than Calculus</title>
		<link>http://www.aphotoeditor.com/2009/01/27/the-obama-hope-poster-shepard-fairey-and-photographer-mannie-garcia/comment-page-1/#comment-37107</link>
		<dc:creator>Alvin&#8217;s Educational Technology Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Derivatives - more than Calculus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jan 2009 13:18:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aphotoeditor.com/?p=1847#comment-37107</guid>
		<description>[...] twenty months and saw the poster many times.  He even snapped pictures of the poster.  He says it looked familiar, but he did not realize it was his picture until someone else figured it [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div style="padding: 1em; background-color: #FFF8DC">[...] twenty months and saw the poster many times.  He even snapped pictures of the poster.  He says it looked familiar, but he did not realize it was his picture until someone else figured it [...]</div>
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		<title>By: Trent Boysen</title>
		<link>http://www.aphotoeditor.com/2009/01/27/the-obama-hope-poster-shepard-fairey-and-photographer-mannie-garcia/comment-page-1/#comment-37089</link>
		<dc:creator>Trent Boysen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jan 2009 01:52:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aphotoeditor.com/?p=1847#comment-37089</guid>
		<description>I guess Fairey could care less, just cashing in the checks. Sad, but very telling about all sides of the industry. This has and will be going on for years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess Fairey could care less, just cashing in the checks. Sad, but very telling about all sides of the industry. This has and will be going on for years.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: makowski und pepe : z życzliwości dla ameryki</title>
		<link>http://www.aphotoeditor.com/2009/01/27/the-obama-hope-poster-shepard-fairey-and-photographer-mannie-garcia/comment-page-1/#comment-37049</link>
		<dc:creator>makowski und pepe : z życzliwości dla ameryki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jan 2009 09:30:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aphotoeditor.com/?p=1847#comment-37049</guid>
		<description>[...] aby gdzieś nie uleciało; choć to stara i do tego nienowa ;-) dyskusja; i monotonna. patrz: zdjęcie ernesto „che&#8221; autorstwa Alberto Kordy… i wiele [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div style="padding: 1em; background-color: #FFF8DC">[...] aby gdzieś nie uleciało; choć to stara i do tego nienowa ;-) dyskusja; i monotonna. patrz: zdjęcie ernesto „che&#8221; autorstwa Alberto Kordy… i wiele [...]</div>
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	<item>
		<title>By: tde</title>
		<link>http://www.aphotoeditor.com/2009/01/27/the-obama-hope-poster-shepard-fairey-and-photographer-mannie-garcia/comment-page-1/#comment-37026</link>
		<dc:creator>tde</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 20:13:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aphotoeditor.com/?p=1847#comment-37026</guid>
		<description>@Giulio Sciorio, 

You seem angry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Giulio Sciorio, </p>
<p>You seem angry.</p>
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		<title>By: Gordon Moat</title>
		<link>http://www.aphotoeditor.com/2009/01/27/the-obama-hope-poster-shepard-fairey-and-photographer-mannie-garcia/comment-page-1/#comment-37013</link>
		<dc:creator>Gordon Moat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 17:55:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aphotoeditor.com/?p=1847#comment-37013</guid>
		<description>@james, The original owner of a Copyrighted image has the right to create a derivative work:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/106).html

People might want to read the Berne Convention, Madrid Protocols, Universal Copyright Code, and the US Copyright Laws, before making encompassing statements about what is or is not Fair Use, especially in derivative works:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derivative_work

Lots of good links there. Also try:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_copyright

http://law-ref.org/BERN/index.html

Problem that is when people make these assumptions, it opens up misinterpretation, which can lead to abuse. People who want to work under these laws should know a little about them, and realize there is room for interpretation, often only solved in court.

The proposed Orphan Works Bill in the US could have been one defense Shepard Fairey might have tried. He could simply claim he tried to find the originator of an image, and could not, thus limiting challenges and potential damages against him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@james, The original owner of a Copyrighted image has the right to create a derivative work:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/106).html" rel="nofollow">http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/106).html</a></p>
<p>People might want to read the Berne Convention, Madrid Protocols, Universal Copyright Code, and the US Copyright Laws, before making encompassing statements about what is or is not Fair Use, especially in derivative works:</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derivative_work" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derivative_work</a></p>
<p>Lots of good links there. Also try:</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_copyright" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_copyright</a></p>
<p><a href="http://law-ref.org/BERN/index.html" rel="nofollow">http://law-ref.org/BERN/index.html</a></p>
<p>Problem that is when people make these assumptions, it opens up misinterpretation, which can lead to abuse. People who want to work under these laws should know a little about them, and realize there is room for interpretation, often only solved in court.</p>
<p>The proposed Orphan Works Bill in the US could have been one defense Shepard Fairey might have tried. He could simply claim he tried to find the originator of an image, and could not, thus limiting challenges and potential damages against him.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: james</title>
		<link>http://www.aphotoeditor.com/2009/01/27/the-obama-hope-poster-shepard-fairey-and-photographer-mannie-garcia/comment-page-1/#comment-36999</link>
		<dc:creator>james</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 13:02:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aphotoeditor.com/?p=1847#comment-36999</guid>
		<description>The poster is a derivitive work, which is allowable under copyright law. The lawyer in the article should have admitted it.  Otherwise, Weird Al Yankovic can be sued for every popular song parody he&#039;s ever produced and sold. Nothing to see here, folks. Move along.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The poster is a derivitive work, which is allowable under copyright law. The lawyer in the article should have admitted it.  Otherwise, Weird Al Yankovic can be sued for every popular song parody he&#8217;s ever produced and sold. Nothing to see here, folks. Move along.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Robert Paulson</title>
		<link>http://www.aphotoeditor.com/2009/01/27/the-obama-hope-poster-shepard-fairey-and-photographer-mannie-garcia/comment-page-1/#comment-36991</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Paulson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 07:21:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aphotoeditor.com/?p=1847#comment-36991</guid>
		<description>@Lane Hartwell, 

You say; &quot;Whether or not Fairey made a penny off the Obama campaign directly with his work, it’s raised his cachet as an artist and made him world famous. At the very least, the original photographer should be credited as well.&quot;

What you don&#039;t know is, that for the past two years Shepard Fairey has been one of the most important emerging artists in the world. He did not need the notoriety he received as a result of the Obama campaign poster. It obviously gave him much publicity but he was already there with out it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Lane Hartwell, </p>
<p>You say; &#8220;Whether or not Fairey made a penny off the Obama campaign directly with his work, it’s raised his cachet as an artist and made him world famous. At the very least, the original photographer should be credited as well.&#8221;</p>
<p>What you don&#8217;t know is, that for the past two years Shepard Fairey has been one of the most important emerging artists in the world. He did not need the notoriety he received as a result of the Obama campaign poster. It obviously gave him much publicity but he was already there with out it.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://www.aphotoeditor.com/2009/01/27/the-obama-hope-poster-shepard-fairey-and-photographer-mannie-garcia/comment-page-1/#comment-36990</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 05:45:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aphotoeditor.com/?p=1847#comment-36990</guid>
		<description>It matters that it was just an average shot and not a great or famous shot. He picked up something up that was otherwise unnoticed and gave it a unique life.

Just think about it: if the photo was already an icon, then how would that change your reaction to the poster? Of course, you would say that the copyright was infringed, because anyone could have spotted the resemblance then.

But what do I know. Common sense tells me that photographing the Marlboro Man directly off a billboard is wrong -- but I guess not.

My vote is not to shackle designers but to give them the benefit of the doubt and as much freedom as possible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It matters that it was just an average shot and not a great or famous shot. He picked up something up that was otherwise unnoticed and gave it a unique life.</p>
<p>Just think about it: if the photo was already an icon, then how would that change your reaction to the poster? Of course, you would say that the copyright was infringed, because anyone could have spotted the resemblance then.</p>
<p>But what do I know. Common sense tells me that photographing the Marlboro Man directly off a billboard is wrong &#8212; but I guess not.</p>
<p>My vote is not to shackle designers but to give them the benefit of the doubt and as much freedom as possible.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Giulio Sciorio</title>
		<link>http://www.aphotoeditor.com/2009/01/27/the-obama-hope-poster-shepard-fairey-and-photographer-mannie-garcia/comment-page-1/#comment-36985</link>
		<dc:creator>Giulio Sciorio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 02:18:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aphotoeditor.com/?p=1847#comment-36985</guid>
		<description>@tde, You&#039;re a fool. If someone stole your image, got money and fame off it while you ate shit you&#039;d sue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@tde, You&#8217;re a fool. If someone stole your image, got money and fame off it while you ate shit you&#8217;d sue.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Giulio Sciorio</title>
		<link>http://www.aphotoeditor.com/2009/01/27/the-obama-hope-poster-shepard-fairey-and-photographer-mannie-garcia/comment-page-1/#comment-36984</link>
		<dc:creator>Giulio Sciorio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 02:13:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aphotoeditor.com/?p=1847#comment-36984</guid>
		<description>It would be super rad if Richard Prince copied this illustration into one of his pieces then sold it for millions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It would be super rad if Richard Prince copied this illustration into one of his pieces then sold it for millions.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Giulio Sciorio</title>
		<link>http://www.aphotoeditor.com/2009/01/27/the-obama-hope-poster-shepard-fairey-and-photographer-mannie-garcia/comment-page-1/#comment-36983</link>
		<dc:creator>Giulio Sciorio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 02:11:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aphotoeditor.com/?p=1847#comment-36983</guid>
		<description>@Mike Panic, &quot;Shepard Fairey’s art over the last two decades has been heavily influenced by the former Soviet Union and China&quot; Then its appropriate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Mike Panic, &#8220;Shepard Fairey’s art over the last two decades has been heavily influenced by the former Soviet Union and China&#8221; Then its appropriate.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: jimmyD</title>
		<link>http://www.aphotoeditor.com/2009/01/27/the-obama-hope-poster-shepard-fairey-and-photographer-mannie-garcia/comment-page-1/#comment-36981</link>
		<dc:creator>jimmyD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 00:08:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aphotoeditor.com/?p=1847#comment-36981</guid>
		<description>@Giulio Sciorio, Power corrupts. Powerful governments are always, to varying degrees, corrupt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Giulio Sciorio, Power corrupts. Powerful governments are always, to varying degrees, corrupt.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Mike Shipman</title>
		<link>http://www.aphotoeditor.com/2009/01/27/the-obama-hope-poster-shepard-fairey-and-photographer-mannie-garcia/comment-page-1/#comment-36976</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Shipman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 22:58:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aphotoeditor.com/?p=1847#comment-36976</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think the poster usage falls under the term of fair use. Whether a photograph is &quot;easy&quot; (i.e. anyone could have take it), not interesting (mundane), one of a million (not one IN a million) shouldn&#039;t matter when it comes to copyright. The photo is copyrighted the instant the shutter is released and the image recorded to the film or sensor. The poster use is only slightly, if even, different from Prince&#039;s appropriation in that the end product is more different than the original than Prince&#039;s manipulations tend to be. But, the end result is the same.

If the photograph had been more iconic and &quot;rare&quot; would Garcia feel the same way about its appropriation? Has this particular photo been used anywhere else? Seems to me the photographer sees the photo as a throw-away that happened to get a second life and helped boost his visibility a bit in the process. Maybe a bit of back scratching should be in order by Fairey if he&#039;s not going to be sued.

I dislike most of the true or false aspect of the law, the hard resistance to much of the gray matter in between (where this issue falls). As photographers (artists), we need to make the decision for ourselves if we are going to draw the hard line or let those things slide that are clearly infringements but help us out in some way.

By what principles do we as individual photographers act? It&#039;s certainly easy for us to comment on this and other instances. We don&#039;t have a direct stake in the outcome.

But, what would you do, really, honestly, in the same situation? Would you hard-nosed &quot;make him pay&quot; types really do that or would you appreciate the bit-o-fame? 

Would you &quot;hey, it&#039;s more exposure than I could have gotten on my own&quot; types really let it slide or would you want to get some money to help pay your mortgage, buy some new gear, or fund that promotion campaign you&#039;ve been wanting to do for years?

I can&#039;t say what I would do until I&#039;m placed in that situation. I hope I would try to make the situation a win for me as well, whatever course that might take, and to whatever extent I would need to go to make it happen.

The hard line is this appears to be infringement. The gray matter is anybody&#039;s guess.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think the poster usage falls under the term of fair use. Whether a photograph is &#8220;easy&#8221; (i.e. anyone could have take it), not interesting (mundane), one of a million (not one IN a million) shouldn&#8217;t matter when it comes to copyright. The photo is copyrighted the instant the shutter is released and the image recorded to the film or sensor. The poster use is only slightly, if even, different from Prince&#8217;s appropriation in that the end product is more different than the original than Prince&#8217;s manipulations tend to be. But, the end result is the same.</p>
<p>If the photograph had been more iconic and &#8220;rare&#8221; would Garcia feel the same way about its appropriation? Has this particular photo been used anywhere else? Seems to me the photographer sees the photo as a throw-away that happened to get a second life and helped boost his visibility a bit in the process. Maybe a bit of back scratching should be in order by Fairey if he&#8217;s not going to be sued.</p>
<p>I dislike most of the true or false aspect of the law, the hard resistance to much of the gray matter in between (where this issue falls). As photographers (artists), we need to make the decision for ourselves if we are going to draw the hard line or let those things slide that are clearly infringements but help us out in some way.</p>
<p>By what principles do we as individual photographers act? It&#8217;s certainly easy for us to comment on this and other instances. We don&#8217;t have a direct stake in the outcome.</p>
<p>But, what would you do, really, honestly, in the same situation? Would you hard-nosed &#8220;make him pay&#8221; types really do that or would you appreciate the bit-o-fame? </p>
<p>Would you &#8220;hey, it&#8217;s more exposure than I could have gotten on my own&#8221; types really let it slide or would you want to get some money to help pay your mortgage, buy some new gear, or fund that promotion campaign you&#8217;ve been wanting to do for years?</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t say what I would do until I&#8217;m placed in that situation. I hope I would try to make the situation a win for me as well, whatever course that might take, and to whatever extent I would need to go to make it happen.</p>
<p>The hard line is this appears to be infringement. The gray matter is anybody&#8217;s guess.</p>
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		<title>By: Alleh Photography</title>
		<link>http://www.aphotoeditor.com/2009/01/27/the-obama-hope-poster-shepard-fairey-and-photographer-mannie-garcia/comment-page-1/#comment-36974</link>
		<dc:creator>Alleh Photography</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 22:28:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aphotoeditor.com/?p=1847#comment-36974</guid>
		<description>Interesting situation. Thank you for going into details about it. Aside from whatever copyright issues people might have or not have I to would be proud to have had my photo used for the poster.

Cheers
Alleh</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting situation. Thank you for going into details about it. Aside from whatever copyright issues people might have or not have I to would be proud to have had my photo used for the poster.</p>
<p>Cheers<br />
Alleh</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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