in truth, i’m not a photographer. i’m a fiction writer, so i feel as though the parameters of life are very similar to yours. hello my brethren!

in all honesty, i agree wholeheartedly with those who say that passion has no bounds and knows no fatigue. remember though that our bodies and minds DO know fatigue, and as our souls must be fed with passion our bodies need something a little more substantial that PB&J sandwiches. I mean, come on, really? I’ll love writing until the day I die, but damn if I’m going to be married to the foolish idea of being a starving artist. If you don’t take care of your basic needs (shelter, food, and soap), then you’ll be singing your photo passions from the grave. and there is nothing romantic about that at all.

i feel as though in order to truly succeed, balance between business and art must be achieved. with too much business you may lose your creativity and thus yourself. with too much art and no business, you could very well see yourself stagnated. sure you’ll enjoy your beautiful artwork, but you’ll prob. be enjoying it by yourself and if you’re really unlucky, enjoying it while living under the main street bridge!

good luck all, and persevere… intelligently.

Try hard! You can try hard getting the visa – everything is possible.

I am older. Since I wrote my initial reply I have done two covers for the weeklies, one the LA Weekly one The Village Voice. But i am still having trouble getting my book out. I can’t work a 9 to 5 since, as an example, the Village Voice called on Friday, I shot on Sunday and it was printed Monday night. What job would let me suddenly take three days off work?

Well said.

Just recently I was in a high street camera shop, replacing some kit I needed to go out and shoot some pictures that afternoon…folio stuff with a designer friend and a model we had borrowed from an agent. The guy behind the desk was moaning that he wished he wasnt stuck selling cameras, and that the industry in Glasgow (where I live and work mainly) should be better, and it was just his bad luck to live somewhere with a traditionally poor commercial photo industry.

I’m juggling the commercial/interesting stuff along with press photography and PR. I enjoy press work, and mostly get bored by the PR stuff, but I am making a living from photography. And I’ve surprised myself as to how much I enjoy the business side too…there’s nothing that makes the imagination work quite like the threat of your overheads not being met.

The reality of this means that I’m up tomorrow morning at 6am to do a presentation to a networking group of businessmen in the hope of picking up more work, and getting my name known more. Not what I thought I’d be doing when I started studying photography, but we only get what we want by allowing ourselves to evolve.

Since I started shooting, I constantly maintained a list of goals that I wanted to achieve. I always felt like if I could only achieve those goals, then I would feel successful and happy. Every time I would achieve what I set out to do, it never really felt like success. By the time I actually reached that goal, it didn’t seam like much at all (Remember when all you wanted was to “be published”??). All I could focus on was the next bigger achievement. Winning major awards, shooting global ad campaigns, solo exhibitions…. actually turning a profit…. None of this stuff left me feeling content.

In the end, I think I’ve found that happiness comes from all the little things, and that success isn’t something you find along the road—it is the road.

I know all this probably sounds sentimental and cheesy, but I think the discovery of true happiness is an important issue, and too many of us are searching in all the wrong places.

Good words!

kept working towards my photo career.

over 9 years of going for it, i seem to be ok right now. lost about 30 pounds over the journey, but it was well worth it.

gordon ball
gordonballphotos.com

First, responding to everyone who thinks there should be more information about the business of photography at school, please (please!) talk to your faculty. I teach at NYU and ICP and hear students (and non-education professionals) gripe about this all the time, but it rarely comes up at school. Personally, I agree completely, and bring “outside” topics into the classroom as much as I can…but until students who are matriculated and paying the bills start to clamor for a change, it’s very (very) difficult to get the attention of those who set the curriculum agendas.

On the other hand, and this might not be obvious if you’re not directly involved in the work of teaching about photography and art, we are stretched thin. Think about the thousand different things that your photo/art program had to cover in some depth (not to mention the stuff that had to be covered in extreme detail). Frankly, there aren’t enough hours in your degree program to get to the level of professional practice in all of them. Something always gets less emphasis. Traditionally, as you know, business is one of the topics that gets less coverage. That’s not the only reason it isn’t emphasized, but it does factor into the equation.

Second, in many years of practicing photography and teaching (and now teaching full time), I have to say that part of the problem with starting out is a misunderstanding. Namely, a lot of us have a tendency to think about the “business” as something static, stable, pre-existing, and in the past. It’s not. The picture world (art-world, magazine world, commercial photo world, whatever) doesn’t exist outside of you. It is you. It’s us. It’s happening now. We’re making it up as we go along.

This isn’t obvious to most of the students I meet, or to most of the photographers and artists I know. If you hear the word “photography” and think “camera” then you’re on the wrong foot. If you’re in school right now, you most likely already know that. But something similar is true with the word “photo business” (or whatever you’re saying to yourself when you say “I have to move to – fill-in-the-blank – City and start my career in photography”). That’s the past talking. No one needs a reminder about the way the world is changing…except that maybe we do. There is no photo business. (Heresy!) But it’s true. If you want to “make a living” by making pictures, you’re going to have to invent that world for yourself.

Photography is a conversation. To live as an artist, a photographer, a writer, (a filmmaker, etc., you know what I mean), is to participate in an extended, multi-threaded conversation, with many voices whispering and shouting simultaneously. If you join that conversation you’ll find yourself saying stuff you didn’t know you knew, learning in ways you didn’t know you could, and growing into a person that doesn’t exist right now. In my experience, the primary ingredient that full participation (success?) requires is a certain kind of courage, as well as, at times, a willingness to be naive enough to really, truly, believe in yourself. And teaching that in art school is probably even more difficult than finding time in the curriculum for the nitty-gritty of business practices.

Good luck with the rest of school Aziz. I wish you all the best!

I’m not looking for an argument, so I’m not taking your bait. I will say that for all its faults, SCAD prepares well those who are willing to work hard, and I can assure you there’s no Kool Aid drinking. As I said, we have no delusions of easy money and high-profile jobs. This very blog entry was posted on the SCAD Photo Blog with the title “Planning on heading to LA or NYC after graduation?” and the following text:

“If you are planning to move to NYC or LA or Chicago to assist or be a shooter after
graduation, you should read the thread below. There is a lot of good information
and many different opinions on this thread. There is also a really good dose of reality in many of the posts.”

So yeah, there is nothing wrong with confidence and optimism, and it certainly helps more than it hurts. Don’t pretend you know me or anyone else in my department before you actually take the time to talk to us and see our work.

I appreciate the reply, thanks.

Although unionization could be a sport to some, I meant to write “spot”.

I’d double check your information re: unions. This is not a sore sport with me – I did not write the laws.

In response to your previous post:

“My comment about the ASMP and APA was how they took cross positions on the bill at some point. Very confusing.”

The reason for the cross positions stems from ASMP’s and PPA’s promise to publicly endorse the House version of the Orphan Works bill in exchange for some meaningless concessions that would benefit only the portrait retail photographers. Their rationale and justification for supporting this lousy bill was that if they didn’t support it now, the next version would be worse. (Wish I knew where they had bought their crystal ball.) APA and others could not and would not support either the House or the Senate bills.

I think the real problem, as usual, lies with the individuals – So many of my peers don’t seem to pay attention at all, coast through their assignments, barely graduate, and expect the paper their degree or certificate is printed on to mean something. It doesn’t, of course. You’re paying for the EXPERIENCE not the degree.

I’d rather be an unemployed artist, and be fulfilling my expectations (hah) than be an unemployed steel worker who thought he had a job until retirement.

Looking at the world and saying “What can I do here, for the world, that will be appreciated and used” vs. “what can the world do for me/ what does it owe me?”

This seems to be a sore spot with you and I want you to know that I’m not trying to pick a fight, just spark some conversation. I know the written word can come across as rude or confrontatiol when it is not meant to be.

well said.

“Both actors and photographers are creative professionals…

Any similarity if there is any stops right there. The creative process, mentality, personalities and end results are very different.

Let’s go over this again. In order for photographer’s to have a union they must be employees. When you are an employee, all that you create is work for hire and therefore, you do not own the copyright. Actors, writers and directors are employees of the production company that is making the film.

“Maybe you have some positive ideas on if/how/when photographers will stop laying down and rolling over?”

HA! Sorry – it’s obvious you haven’t been around very long. Unfortunately, the majority of photographers will never stop. It is due to a combination of lack of self respect, flimsy spines and a refusal to not only accept that this is a business, but also an unwillingness to really understand what business is about. Of course not all are like this and the ones that aren’t live very well for the most part. But there will always be someone who will do the job cheaper thinking that the next time around it will be different. It won’t. There will always be those who will give away their rights thinking that’s the only way they can get the job. Well it’s not.

“Yes. And good timing and lots of luck.”

Again, you can believe whatever you’d like but I can’t treat this and your original statement with any degree of seriousness. In my opinion, this notion is everything that is wrong with this industry.

“Comparisons between photographers and SAG members, or WGA members are non-analogous.”

How so? Both actors and photographers are creative professionals that are paid to bring their visions to a project in order to sell something. They have agents that negotiate jobs for them, and the prices they command vary widely based on perceived value. The only significant difference is in how they are organized.

“If you really want to believe what you wrote, that’s your prerogative. I beg to differ. By the way it’s Leibovitz.”

I do. OK. Thanks.

“They don’t have as much control because it has been consistently relinquished by a community that has repeatedly laid down and rolled over.”

Not everyone is rolling over. But if one person caves, it makes things more difficult for everyone, which results in usage giveaways, microstock, and editorial rates that stagnate for 10 years. More and more photographers are coming to dinner and we keep trying to divide up the same small pie.

I don’t think that pricing minimums are the answer either. I do think that it’s time to figure out how to bake a bigger pie, which is going to require a different approach than the one we’ve got.

“According to your statement above, all he would need is a camera.”

Yes. And good timing and lots of luck. Unfortunately they don’t sell those at B&H.

Maybe you have some positive ideas on if/how/when photographers will stop laying down and rolling over? I’d love to hear them.

typo, again, towards the end:

…”UNapologetically embraced the digital medium…”

Uh, bad, bad, bad typo there on my part:
(second paragraph)

I have NO delusions of immediate success.

But I know that creating art is who I am, it’s who I’ve always been, and I’m willing and able to tough it out. I feel that my work is very strong and that I’ve got a lot of potential; however, I have delusions of success in my first, or even second or third year out. I know it’ll take a while to get going– but I’m not going to give up.

And like you said, the longer I can hold on, the more people will drop out, and it’ll make it all the more easier once the economy turns around.

This whole page seems a little ridiculous, as if Photography is somehow some kind of weird anomaly in this economic depression, like it’s getting hit harder and we should be more scared than any other industry. I don’t think I’m wasting my time or money on an education in the arts, and I take offense at the posters above who suggested such nonsense. Blanket statements only show ignorance, and I know that I and my talented classmates will graduate with fresh ideas and creativity that could very well restart the industry and push it in a new direction. I’ve already seen the next generation of young photographers who have apologetically embraced the digital medium and are working wonders beyond purists most terrifying nightmares.

Look out, we’re coming.