That is how it always is. Those with no love for a particular field jumping on the bandwagon for a quick buck. In doing so they suck that particular field dry and once the ground is no longer fertile they move on to the next big thing to destroy it. So was the case of telecomm, IT, Photography, Real Estate etc. Talentless people are like locust.

Teaching is hard work, and those who are only in it for the money tend to crash and burn (out) very quickly.

– CJ

Please re-read my original post. My original point was that we photographers seem to be addicted to tearing down other photographers — ESPECIALLY those who arrive at “business success.”

I specifically referred to “success in business” — not to “success in general” or anything of that order. I was referring to one type of specific success for my own reasons, and I had every right to do so in my statement.

And, don’t get me wrong, I wasn’t saying that business success was the only success there is. And, my point had nothing do with arguing against other types of success. My original statement means exactly what I stated, word for word.

I think the only point in your comment is the thinking that there are only a “very few” photographers who actually become a success.

It depends on how you frame success. Bigger and better is not always the best avenue to drive down. There are shooters who score huge ad campaigns with big bucks who don’t bray about it on the net. They don’t scream look at me on their blogs or web sites.

Mr. Jarvis found the interstate to success. I’d rather take the scenic route and enjoy the journey.

As teh “David Hobby” you mention above, I can tell you that I have tried to tamp down (as much as possible) the number of workshops I am doing.

It’s a neat weekend gig (or week-long gig) but it does not scale well. I am a one-man band, and committing to a workshop — especially a week-long — is a big disruption in an already crowded site and shooting schedule.

I would rather be shooting, which makes me happy, and which is also ultimately the best fodder for the site. As for workshop invitations, I have learned to get better at saying “no, but thank you anyway,” which will make 2010 a much more manageable year than 2009. Hopefully.

-DH

In all honesty, I only heard of Chase Jarvis about a month ago. First thing I did was look through Lürzer’s Archive 200 Best Ad Photographers, and in the few of those tomes I have here, I found not one listing of him. Then I checked through the CommArts issues I still have here, and again not one mention I could find, though perhaps I missed him. So I viewed his website, and the work is nice, but I have to wonder how I have missed his name.

So we should get ready for a stampede of highly creative photographers into the soon to be lucrative field of yellow pages photography?

Now that is funny.

Or try saying something like “I’m not really into the work, but I congratulate his success.” That would take some guts.

Shoot the messenger rather than understand the message?

You appear to be pretty young. It’s not that I and others are unaware of the blog you posted. I don’t find much useful there. Apparently I am not part of your community – which is why I asked *you* to explain personally.

AFAICT – Your community is hobbyists, amateurs, newbs,
looking for a shortcut. The self promoter gets the attention (and sometimes $) they need and the newbs get info they need. It’s a co-dependent relationship.

Your expectations of “giving back” don’t add up.
A creative person busts their ass, spends decades developing their art & business. Probably hundreds of thousands of dollars as well. How much has this “community” you reference been involved with the work and investment these creatives have strived towards?
Why is your community entitled to a gift? Where is the mutual exchange?

In some cases the glut of imagery provided by this “community” through crowd sourcing, dollar stock, etc may be oversaturating markets. Not just as finished images but as components in PS composite illustrations. These contributors may not have a strong business sense.

Bottom line, there are no free lunches. Creatives who pay dues and work hard develop their own strengths. However today with the over saturation of images available, even great strengths will not necessarily add up to a viable career. Nor one that provides a healthy ROI next to any other endeavor. If you are looking to just have fun, I’d say carry on.

If you are serious about this as a career, I’d suggest you take business classes (and possibly join APA) to determine if there is a ROI in the marketplace before you get in too deep and waste a decade or two.

Great! You’re very welcome. I didn’t know if I could explain it that well. But, I’m glad you could understand it clearly. Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays… :-)

I was tired about hearing of them years ago. It is hard to not see there name everywhere when every fanboy magazine pushes their “work” or latest exploit. Whatever. Let people follow them. I would rather do real work that matters.

Same for quite a few other blog entries including Rob’s site – Chase uses the information and repackages it as his gift to the community.

Yeah the guy is good, not great. He is great at promoting to other photographers and wanna-be’s who want to be like Chase.

Good for him. Original, no I don’t think so. But who is when every one copies everyone else? I

He gets angry when people call him out: calls them haters. As if people were obsessed or concerned about him.

Really who cares. The guy is famous for being being famous amongst photographers.

Until he has a significant body of work that is more significant than his promotion, it just doesn’t matter.

This conversation is about trends, not Chase or Laforet or any other well known shooter in the blog, twitter, video, facebook world.

I think this self-absorbed trend will continue.

Thanks for the clarification Brandon, that makes sense.

Cheers

Mainly aspiring photographers and amateurs who want to improve their photography.

e.g., http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnfrPjb8xbs

In addition, he receives hundreds of questions (or more) from random, aspiring photographers every week, and he makes an effort to answer most of those questions. I don’t know many other photographers who shoots the same caliber of clients/assignments he shoots with, who does the same thing.

If you really want to get a sense for what Chase does to give back and who he gives back to, then check out his blog and find out for yourself. Spending a some time on his blog will give you a MUCH better sense of “the community” than I could ever explain.

Brandon, I would also like to know the answers to these questions. What community? What has been “given back”?

One of my assistants said EXACTLY these same things about Mr. Jarvis to me last year when we were wrapping up a shoot. EXACTLY.

I told him this. There is no “community” with regards to professional photography, it is business. In my opinion, the “giving back” is actually “look at me!”. It obviously works for him and THAT impresses me more than anything. He is a good photographer and a great self promoter and I applaud him for that.

I would love to hear your answers to Bob’s questions.

What criteria do you use to select those specific magazines from the rest?

Thanks in advance.

Yea, only “a little” cynical.

My guess is that if someone out there has heard about Chase Jarvis and Vincent Laforet too much, then they’re probably on the internet way too much and they need to get a hobby. None of us are forced to read blogs or discussion forums.

Hopefully, it ends up in someone’s prediction that photographers find a way to spend less time on the internet.

Chase Jarvis and Vincent Laforet hit the saturation point, and people get sick of hearing about them.

Everyone with a new dSLR thinks they are a videographer, albeit an awful one. Those with true video skills rise above.

Someone is named a part of “PDN’s 30 under 30″ by having taken direct-flash pictures of their hipster friends in hipster clothing.

People finally realize that audio slideshows are at best tedious to sit through.

Every person has a blog, thereby defeating the purpose of a blog.

2011:

People realize that the internet actually sucks, and is a huge waste of time.

A little cynical, but that’s the way I see it.

Btw, if you really are here to learn, and if you really want answers, then go to Chase’s blog: http://blog.chasejarvis.com/blog

In addition to his self-promotion, there’s plenty of advice and videos that help get insight into what it takes to do what he does — it’s almost like he lets you see into his world which sort of flies in the face of the “secrecy mentality” that some photographers have. I’m not saying that he’s the only one out there who does this kind of stuff. Others who do it should be applauded to, but they’re a minority.

(Like I said, he’s not my favorite photographer and I’m not a self-appointed expert on him, but I know enough about what he does that he does far more good than harm.)

What exactly is “given back to the community”?
Who is this “community”, and why do they needs gifts?

My gut feeling – the self promoter needs the “community”,
more than the community needs the self promoter. However if I’ve missed something, I’m here to learn.

The most creative talents I’ve known have developed on their own.

Whoa, are you suggesting that Chase gives back simply because it’s part of his marketing plan, not because he’s more-so doing it out of the kindness of his heart?

Almost every photographer I know gives back out the kindness of their heart, too. But, that wasn’t necessarily what I was getting at earlier in the debate. To clarify, what my point actually was, was that out of all of the photographers who work with the level of clients/assignments Chase works with, he’s one of few who consistently gives back to a large extent.

By no means is he my favorite photographer. But, basically, what I’m saying is that he’s done more good than harm for photography, and his success should be applauded (along with everyone else’s success) even if he does things his way (not yours, not mine). We photographers don’t benefit from behaving like piranha.

Almost every photographer I know gives back in some way shape or form.

And they do it out of the goodness of their hearts, not their marketing plan.

Most certainly self promotion is something that Chase’s business model has thrived upon. And I think he should continue to do what works for him, even if it’s not what would work for me. Yet, I can still name an endless number of photographers of equal or higher success that don’t give back to the community near as much as he does.